topic Warehouse deployment: 7.5m ceiling - external antennas?! in Wireless

Warehouse deployment: 7.5m ceiling - external antennas?!

Flavio Boniforti — Sun, 04 Jul 2021 06:42:50 GMT

Hello there.

I'm about to roll out a WLAN setup for a Warehouse with 7.5m high ceiling and full-height racks for stocking different kind of items (the exact nature is unknown to me).

I was thinking about deploying 1600 Series APs but I'm not sure whether or not to use external antennas or not.

What criterium should I consider the most, assuming that the goal is to have the APs ceiling-mounted and have 2.4 GHz signal from top to bottom?

I took a look at the AIR-ANT2566P4W external antenna, but actually don't know how that should be eventually mounted to achieve my goal.

Any help will be appreciated.

Kind regards,

Flavio.

Re: Warehouse deployment: 7.5m ceiling - external antennas?!

Scott Fella — Mon, 11 Mar 2013 13:51:34 GMT

First off I wouldn't use the 1600's the 3600's is really what's recommended for those areas. The 2600's you can probably get away with.

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Re: Warehouse deployment: 7.5m ceiling - external antennas?!

Scott Fella — Mon, 11 Mar 2013 13:53:06 GMT

Also that antenna is a patch. I would thing that you would use an omni directional. It all depends on what was surveyed.

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Warehouse deployment: 7.5m ceiling - external antennas?!

Flavio Boniforti — Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:16:17 GMT

Hello Scott.

Thanks for your quick reply.

A couple of questions arise:

why would I need to stick at least with 2600s instead of 1600s (even better if 3600)?

why would you suggest to use omni-directional antennas?

The customer doesn't want to have the site surveyed and the goal is to be able to cover from ceiling to floor with 2.4-GHz band. Handheld wireless barcode scanners will be used.

I thought that it would be better instead of omni-directional antenna, to use some sort of directional antenna: I'd mount the APs on the ceiling between the storage racks.

Thanks for further suggestions and for discussing this with me.

Kind regards,

Flavio.

Re: Warehouse deployment: 7.5m ceiling - external antennas?!

Scott Fella — Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:32:53 GMT

Well the height isn't bad.. 7.5m you can still get away with the 3602i or 2602i. The 1602's are the low end and isn't really recommended, but I can't tell you what to use:). I have always deployed omni in the last few years and have gotten away from using patch. At that height if you use a patch, the signal will reflect back up. That's why an omni is a better choice. The newer APs have a better down tilt than the older gen APs.

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Warehouse deployment: 7.5m ceiling - external antennas?!

Flavio Boniforti — Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:03:21 GMT

Hello again Scott.

So the first clear thing to me is that a patch antenna is not recommendet AT THAT HEIGHT because of reflections.

Is there any way to know "how far" the signal from an AP (1600, 2600, 3600) could reach without obstacles?

Thanks and regards,

Flavio.

Warehouse deployment: 7.5m ceiling - external antennas?!

Leo Laohoo — Mon, 11 Mar 2013 21:58:42 GMT

You don't have to let the APs hang off the ceiling. You can get an Oberon 1029-00 bracket and mount the bracket and AP against the shelves. It makes easier replacement and maintenance.

How high are the shelves? How long are the rows of shelves? What kind of barcode scanners?

Warehouse deployment: 7.5m ceiling - external antennas?!

kristjan.edvardsson — Fri, 06 Sep 2013 11:42:10 GMT

I have a similar warehouse case. approx 6 meter ceiling mixed with long 2m height hallways. For simplicity

I am looking at this antenna

ant2544v4m and 2602i or even better 3602i APs. I have tested it before in long hallways when it faces up and it has nice performance. I am wondering if it would perform well from drop ceiling in both 6 meter (warehouse) and 2 meter high (hallways connecting warehouse facilities)

Warehouse deployment: 7.5m ceiling - external antennas?!

vlad.mihailov — Fri, 06 Sep 2013 19:35:22 GMT

Patch antennas can be used at the begining of the long hallway to shoot energy along the corridors. Or on such a low ceiling (6 m is not that tall) using regular omni directional antennas will do fine.

Re: Warehouse deployment: 7.5m ceiling - external antennas?!

Leo Laohoo — Sat, 07 Sep 2013 00:17:26 GMT

3600 AP for a warehouse???

Boy, that's an overkill.

For a warehouse, I'd recommend a 2600.

Re: Warehouse deployment: 7.5m ceiling - external antennas?!

Scott Fella — Sat, 07 Sep 2013 12:35:39 GMT

Haha. Leo... Cisco pushes the 3600 due to how it's built than the 2600's. since its more rugged than the 2600's, I have many large customers who uses the 3600's in their warehouse, factory and distribution centers than the 2600 or the 1600. But of course, money isn't an issue at all.

We use the 3602i's in indoor office area low ceiling areas and the we use the 3602e's in the high ceiling areas.

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Re: Warehouse deployment: 7.5m ceiling - external antennas?!

Jacob Snyder — Sat, 07 Sep 2013 13:03:00 GMT

The 2600e is less rugged that a 3600e? Odd that they have the same environmental specs. I would like to see that documented from Cisco. Honestly sounds like an excuse to buy a more expensive AP.

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Re: Warehouse deployment: 7.5m ceiling - external antennas?!

Scott Fella — Sat, 07 Sep 2013 13:40:15 GMT

It is the same environmental specs, but they push the 3600's in larger environments. Per their Gen 2 PDF, they push the 1600's for small, 2600 for medium and 3600's for large. So that's how they push the 3600's in many if my warehouse environments. If you have the money, customers would rather have a high end AP for their production than a mid to lower model AP.

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Re: Warehouse deployment: 7.5m ceiling - external antennas?!

ALIAOF_ — Sat, 07 Sep 2013 14:13:02 GMT

How do you deal with dead spots in your warehouse deployments for instance if the products being stacked on the shelves and moving around on fork lifts are the products that interfere with the wifi signals, such as Liquids and Glass. I read about the Smart Antennas and dynamic beam forming technologies is that something that Cisco supports as well? Is Cisco client link 2.0 a similar concept? Any thoughts?

Thank you.

Re: Warehouse deployment: 7.5m ceiling - external antennas?!

Scott Fella — Sat, 07 Sep 2013 14:36:55 GMT

Well when we survey, we survey and take samples from areas that have most product so you have a baseline of how your signal propagates from various AP/antenna locations. A good site survey will eliminate any dead spots or poor coverage areas to be honest. We have delt with warehouse areas where the trucks are all robotic and they scan from either the lower skid to the upper most skid and the isle is like 5'-10' wide. The tricky part is do you use omni's or do you also mix in patch antennas. All this varies depending on the height of the ceiling, height of the product, attenuation from the product, width or the isle and elevation of where the devices need to scan. Many site I have done, scan only on the floor level, so coverage is provided 100% on the floor. It's tricky when they scan at various elevations, because now you have to determine from where you can place your antenna, what's your coverage area from various heights. Once you get a good baseline, you can almost determine the other AP/antenna locations I'm the other are of the warehouse even when you have less to no product.

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Re: Warehouse deployment: 7.5m ceiling - external antennas?!

Leo Laohoo — Sun, 08 Sep 2013 02:56:53 GMT

Cisco pushes the 3600 due to how it's built than the 2600's. since its more rugged than the 2600's, I have many large customers who uses the 3600's in their warehouse, factory and distribution centers than the 2600 or the 1600.

IF and only IF money is no problem.

Warehouse deployment: 7.5m ceiling - external antennas?!

Scott Fella — Sun, 08 Sep 2013 13:09:27 GMT

Money is always an issue and that's why they build other version or can I say lower end models. This way they can compete better with other vendors and also have a model that is affordable. There is always a compromise when you need to make a product to cost a certain price, so that doesn't mean that they are using the same materials on all there AP's, because they are not. This is how they can provide a lower cost model to customer's. I have never installed a 1600 at any of my customers and I have only had one customer use 2600's, all the rest went with the 3600's. This doesn't mean anything as many of my customers don't have an issue with cost, but they also see it as, well.... I would rather have the 3600, because that is Cisco's flagship AP. I would too and that's why my AP's in my home are all 3600's and the 2600's and 1600's are in my closet:) It doesn't mean the other AP's don't work, it comes down to preference and budget also.

I'm not a fan at all for a mixed environment of ap models as you can then have issue with bugs due to certain models. It's easier to distinguish issues when you are running the same model (ex. 3602i and or 3602e) than 3600's, 2600's, 1142's etc. Customers also like to keep or have consistency so it doesn't matter if its an office, HQ, warehouse, distribution, factory, they like to have the same AP's everywhere. Mirgation of course is a different story.

Thanks,

Scott

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When a patch antenna is not

zildj — Sun, 09 Mar 2014 01:56:50 GMT

When a patch antenna is not an option what would be the aprx max recommended height for a 3602e with short omni dipoles? It appears the new short dipoles have good down tilt specs? Thank you