topic Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses? in Wireless

Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

robmattocks — Wed, 02 Feb 2022 15:29:38 GMT

Hi All,

This has got me very confused, and I have not been able to get an answer so far from Cisco support, so hopefully someone may be able to shed some light:

I have two customers with Cisco 9800 Controllers. The first was installed last year using a 9800-L and 9115 APs. In this case the customer bought AIR-DNA-A licenses, one per AP. The licenses sit in their virtual account and are used by the controller without a problem.

The second site is currently being installed. This has a 9800-40 WLC and a mix of 9115, 1542 and legacy 2800 APs (the 2800s are on site and currently being controlled by a 5508). In this case the licenses are AIR-DNA-E, one per AP (including the legacy ones). In this case, when an AP is connected to the controller (either legacy or new) the controller shows the license as out of compliance, and the customer virtual account shows the AP Perpetual Networkstack license as not being available in the account.

What I am not sure about is why these are missing - in both cases I ordered the DNA license under just that part number, and in the first account the AP Networkstack licenses show and are in use.

Can anyone help? Do the AP licenses need ordering separately for AIR-DNA-E licenses?

thanks

Rob

Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

Scott Fella — Wed, 02 Feb 2022 15:47:56 GMT

Take a look at this blog. It breaks it down very simple. In the end, when you migrate from AireOS to IOS, all ap's will need a DNA license.

Cisco Wireless Licensing | SketchingTech

Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

robmattocks — Wed, 02 Feb 2022 16:01:32 GMT

Hi Scott,
That makes sense, and that is what I have done - for each AP in the two customer installations I have a DNA license. The problem I have is the fact that in one installation when an AP is connected to the controller the AP uses one DNA license and one AP Networkstack license, but in the second installation the AP uses one DNA license but the AP networkstack license is showing as not available - it doesn't stop the AP from connecting, but it does give me a big red "OUT OF COMPLIANCE" message on the controller licensing page and flags an alert in the smart account.
I thought - and everything I read from cisco says - that the AP network license was either bundled with the DNA license or was embedded in the AP and activated by the DNA license. What I cannot determine is whether the AP Network license needs ordering separately in this case, or whether I have to put up with the compliance warning - I have a feeling that if that was the case the AP would stop working when the DNA license expires.
In short - when I ordered AIR-DNA-A licenses, AP Perpetual Networkstack Advantage licenses were included. When I ordered AIR-DNA-E licenses, AP Perpetual Networkstack Essential licenses were NOT included. Is this something you have seen?
Thanks

Rob

Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

Scott Fella — Wed, 02 Feb 2022 16:20:57 GMT

I will be honest, I haven't ran into this yet, because its only in testing right now and I haven't had the change to migrate sites yet due to budget and lead times. Have you reached out to TAC license as they may be able to shed some light. They would look at what you have already.

Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

robmattocks — Wed, 02 Feb 2022 16:28:32 GMT

That was the first thing I did - I opened a TAC case, and also asked my account manager at the company I bought the kit from to look into it. The TAC contact will not or can not help until I provide the purchase order number, and the order number I have been given by the supplier isn't in Cisco's records, so I am stumped, hence trying the forum. Note also that this isn't a migration - this is a new installation using brand new kit. There are some legacy APs that will be moved over, and I have bought DNAs for them, but until I can get to the bottom of this I can't take the risk of moving to the new platform.
It looks like I will have to buy another DNA-E license and see what I get - perhaps I can RMA the old licenses as DOA!

Rob

Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

Scott Fella — Wed, 02 Feb 2022 17:45:11 GMT

You need to escalate to the company you purchased the equipment from. They should be able to open up a TAC case on your behalf also. Did the company add the license to your smart account or were you able to do that?

Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

robmattocks — Wed, 02 Feb 2022 18:23:32 GMT

Agreed - I have been chasing them to try and get this resolved. They did allocate the licenses to my account, and (as far as I can determine) they placed the order directly with Cisco, but I am not too impressed with the post sales support, I have to say.
I have found another Cisco email address - ask-catalyst9800licensing@cisco.com - and have asked the question of them, so fingers crossed I get a reply.

It may be that the essentials DNA license does not include the AP license, in which case my customer will have to buy new DNAs in three years, but I do wish this was made clear - If I had known I would have recommended the advantage license despite the price difference.

It would be nice to get rid of the compliance warning, too, if possible. I did think I had got the hang of Smart Licensing, but it looks like I was wrong.

Rob

Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

Scott Fella — Wed, 02 Feb 2022 18:57:18 GMT

Well keep us updated... would like to hear the end result.

Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

robmattocks — Wed, 02 Feb 2022 19:06:32 GMT

Will do - thanks for taking an interest
Rob

Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

Arshad Safrulla — Thu, 03 Feb 2022 11:04:02 GMT

Hi,

When the order is placed you can define the recipient smart account details in CCW. You will see 2 smart account's one is end customer smart account and the other one is holding smart account. From my experience what happens is that Cisco teams sometimes transfer only half or some of the licenses belongs to that order to the end customer smart account and other's they just put it on the holding smart account (usually the partner smart account who processed the order for you) or they simply don't assign some licenses.

So the best thing to do is open a case with licensing team, it is must that you need to provide cisco sales order or purchase order number so licensing tac team can look at your order and assign the required licenses to correct account.

Also if you are not planning to use DNA center, then only consider renewing the DNA licenses, otherwise let it expire. Network Advantage/essentials for each AP is permanent and it will not expire.

Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

robmattocks — Thu, 03 Feb 2022 12:58:32 GMT

Hi Arshadsaf,
Thanks for the suggestion, that certainly sounds like a possibility to me. I will continue to chase my supplier and hopefully will get this resolved
Rob

Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

Rich R — Thu, 03 Feb 2022 14:37:54 GMT

Also interested to hear what the outcome is.

You didn't mention what version of IOS-XE you're using? (ideally recent version like 17.6.x with SLUP which is the latest version of smart licensing).

You should also be able to find the relevant order number by looking up an AP serial number (from the same order) on https://mce.cisco.com/mce/#/devices and then see exactly what was on that order on the Orders menu.

Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

robmattocks — Thu, 03 Feb 2022 15:07:46 GMT

Thanks for the link to the entitlement list - sadly as the APs are so far not installed they are not showing up on here yet. It will certainly be useful in the future though.

I have managed to get hold of the cisco order number from my supplier (I didn't buy direct from a Cisco distributor) and have given it to Cisco, but apparently the AP licenses (SKU AIR-DNA-NWSTACK-E) were not purchased when the DNA licenses were purchased. I have gone back to my supplier and asked them to try and purchase these separately - I can only find one site offering them for sale (although they are out of stock) at $0.01 each. Fingers crossed they will get to the bottom of it eventually. All the Cisco documentation I can find shows these licenses as included automatically with a DNA license, but I would really prefer not to have to order another 49 DNA licenses just to get a free component of them.

As to the IOS version, I have so far left the 9800-40s on 16.10, which is what they shipped with. It took seven months from order date for the equipment to arrive (by which time the 1542s had gone EOL) and then Christmas plus other projects got in the way of the installation, so I have held off ordering a support contract until the kit is ready to go live - at the rate this install is going the contract will have expired by the time the kit is up and running!

Rob

Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

Rich R — Thu, 03 Feb 2022 17:39:52 GMT

Ha ha I feel your pain!

The serials and orders should be in MCE regardless of install state but maybe they "belong" to your supplier rather than you so you can't see them.

I can't understand how they could have left out AIR-DNA-NWSTACK-E as it is populated on the order by default as a zero cost item when you order AIR-DNA-E and you cannot even remove it manually!

You can see this is Figure 4 here: https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/wireless/catalyst-9100ax-access-points/guide-c07-742134.html#HowtoOrderaCiscoDNAWirelessSubscription

So maybe you go back to Cisco and the supplier and question why/how it was left off and make it their problem to sort it out - they should have known to include it regardless.

Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

robmattocks — Thu, 03 Feb 2022 18:12:00 GMT

I actually took a screenshot of exactly that image and sent it to Cisco as part of the support call dialogue, in the hope that it would get the required response. The reply I received was:

Hi Rob,

You need to purchase that license from the cisco sales team because if it is not included in the sales order, It is not possible for me to provision the licenses without entitlement.

Please let me know if anything else needed.

So I have gone back to my supplier to try and get them to sort things out.

The only thing I can think is that I have been supplied with DNA renewal licenses, which logically would not include the AP license, but given that I ordered the APs (or at least most of them) at the same time that seems pretty unlikely.

Having said that, I am starting to think that anything is possible

Rob

Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

Rich R — Thu, 03 Feb 2022 18:26:15 GMT

Yes that might be a plausible explanation in which case it is the supplier's mistake and they need to rectify it for you.

It's not as if it's going to cost them a fortune and it's the least they can do for the inconvenience they've caused you.

Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

Scott Fella — Fri, 04 Feb 2022 14:25:40 GMT

I actually had a meeting with our Cisco folks on DNA license and he mentioned that when moving from AireOS to the 9800, you need to purchase a separate DNA-E or DNA-A license for each access point that wasn't purchased with DNA license. Then when you look at this matrix:

Enterprise Networks Software Subscription Matrix for Switching - Cisco

The Network Essentials is perpetual for DNA Essentials and Network Advantage is perpetual for DNA Advantage. So if the subscription expires, you have the perpetual features that is listed on the matrix. They told me to look at it as a sub element.

DNA-Advantage (3/5/7 yrs) includes Network Advantage (never expires)

DNA-Essentials(3/5/7 yrs) includes Network Essentials (never expires)

When you purchase access points with the opt-out for DNA license, that is used for AireOS since the licensing is different. Once you convert to the 9800, each ap needs to have a DNA license.

Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

robmattocks — Fri, 04 Feb 2022 15:06:11 GMT

Thanks Scott,

That is yet more confirmation that the AP licenses should have been supplied with the DNA licenses, and more ammo for me. I have escalated the issue with Cisco, so hopefully I will eventually get things sorted out.

As you say, each AP that connects to the 9800 needs to have a DNA license (and, if they don't vanish into the ether, an AP license), whether the AP is a new one or an existing one connected to an AireOS controller. My customer has a total of 49 APs, currently connected to a 5508 (well, two 5508s in SSO). Most of these are 3500s, and will be replaced, but they have a few 2800s that are able to connect to the 9800s, and I have bought DNAs for these - I have been doing some other work on site recently that involved powering down a switch stack, and two of the 2800s have actually joined the 9800 that is in place already - this is how I discovered the missing AP licenses. Fortunately a reboot of the 9800 sent the APs back to the 5508 for the time being until I can get the 9800s properly set up and the new APs (a mix of 1542s for the factory areas and 9115s for the offices) configured and ready to go.

Rob

Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

Scott Fella — Fri, 04 Feb 2022 15:10:34 GMT

Good luck... licensing is very interesting and not many spend time to really understand that since it does change often.

Re: Wireless Smart Licensing - missing AP Licenses?

robmattocks — Sat, 12 Feb 2022 15:00:10 GMT

Well, I have finally managed to get things sorted out, thank goodness.

After umpteen emails between Cisco and myself they finally washed their hands of the problem altogether and told me that it had to be sorted out by the supplier. Having had no joy from my supplier up to that point, I bypassed them and went straight to the distributor they had bought the licenses from (having found out who that was when I was getting the Cisco sales order number from my supplier). Fortunately we have an account with the distributor, and after a couple of phone calls and some emails explaining the problem I found a very helpful person who raised the problem with Cisco, who confirmed immediately that the licenses should have been supplied along with the DNA licenses and arranged for them to be added to our Smart account. They are there now, licensing away like anything.

Having obtained a quote for a license from another supplier during my attempts to confirm that the NWSTACK license should be part of the DNA license (it's there, listed as a zero-cost component of the DNA license) I strongly recommend that if anyone is getting pricing for these licenses from a reseller they ask for an itemised quote - at least that way if something is not supplied you have written evidence that it should have been.

Thanks to everyone who made suggestions and took an interest in this - at least my understanding of Cisco's licensing strategy has come on in leaps and bounds over the past couple of weeks, even if it was at the expense of my peace of mind.