10GE-WAN-PHY to STM-64

Antonio_1_2 · ‎07-20-2011

Hello,

I would be grateful if anyone can help me with this problem.

Is it possible to interconnect 10GE WAN-PHY port on router to STM-64 port on multiplexer?

Is it generaly allowed to inerconnect SDH and SONET (or their frames and signals are not compatibile) i.e oc-192 and STM-64?

I have DWDM with four STM-16/OTU-1 ports. I've planned to multiplex those 4 ports to one STM-64 and connect it to 10GE WAN-PHY router port.

(router)10GE-WAN-PHY-----STM-64/OTU-2 (multiplexer) 4xSTM-16/OTU-1-----4xSTM16/OTU-1(dwdm).

Is it feasible or I need some additional equipment?

thanks in advance,

A.

viyuan700 · ‎07-20-2011

Is it possible to interconnect 10GE WAN-PHY port on router to STM-64 port on multiplexer?

Yes it is possible to connect.

Is it generaly allowed to inerconnect SDH and SONET (or their frames and signals are not compatibile) i.e oc-192 and STM-64?

Ifa box is pure SDH STM64 and another is pure SONET OC192.You cannot connect STM64----OC192. They are different need special box to interface

I have DWDM with four STM-16/OTU-1 ports. I've planned to multiplex those 4 ports to one STM-64 and connect it to 10GE WAN-PHY router port.

(router)10GE-WAN-PHY-----STM-64/OTU-2 (multiplexer) 4xSTM-16/OTU-1-----4xSTM16/OTU-1(dwdm).

NOT possible . You have four STM 16 ports on your DWDM box how will you convert that to STM 64. Four STM 16 on a DWDM box can be multiplexed on a fiber but they are still 4 different wavelength (this is optical multiplexing different than electrical multiplexing ) not a single STM64 signal.

But If you have a SDH/SONET box which can have both STM 64 and STM 16 then STM 64 you can connect to Router and STM 16 to DWDM box.

Let me know if you have more questions.

Antonio_1_2 · ‎07-21-2011

Thank you very much for your answers.

If you can please answer some additional questions, just to clarify:

1) When I connect 10GE WAN-PHY router port to STM-64 box, will router send STM-64 frames, or it has different frames then SDH?

Is the 10GE WAN-PHY also compatibile with OC-192?

2) Do you know if Cisco has a box that can interface two boxes STM64----OC192 (or OC-3 --- STM-1)? Which type of box is that generaly?

3) (router)10GE-WAN-PHY-----STM-64/OTU-2 (SDH/SONET box) 4xSTM-16/OTU-1-----4xSTM16/OTU-1(dwdm).

I wasn't clear enough in my previous post. I was thinking to put box (multiplexer) between router and DWDM, which on one side toward router will have STM-64 and toward DWDM will have four STM-16 ports.

Is the scheme that I corrected now above in point 3) allowed?

Thanks,

A.

Tom Randstrom · ‎07-21-2011

I’m curious, what payload is being carried by the STM16s? Why would you not just terminate the STM16s on your router and not add another device?

I believe your application would require a router to interface the 4x STM16 signals to the STM64 signals.

Although it is possible to multiplex 4 x STM16 to a STM64, using a SDH mux (15454), you would not be able to hand it off the STM64 to your router’s 10GEWAN interface. The 10GEWAN is not SDH formatted to accept a multiplexed interface, which is what the STM64 (4 x STM16) would be in your application. Think of the 10GEWAN as similar to a POS, which is a single concatenated STM interface containing a block of data. Your STM64 is 4 blocks of STM16 data.

I am not sure if this helps.

Antonio_1_2 · ‎07-25-2011

Hi Tom,

Is it possible to have STM-64c (which is concatenated) on one side (toward router) and on another 4 x STM16?

Regards,

A

Tom Randstrom · ‎07-25-2011

Do you mean the STM64c and the 4 x STM16s coming in/out of the same router?

Antonio_1_2 · ‎07-26-2011

Yes. from the same router (or whichever box is capable of such feature)

like:

(router ---10GE-WAN-PHY)--interconnection----(STM-64c----BOX---4 x STM-16)--- (DWDM)

regards,

A.

viyuan700 · ‎07-25-2011

"you would not be able to hand it off the STM64 to your router’s 10GEWAN interface. The 10GEWAN is not SDH formatted to accept a multiplexed interface, which is what the STM64 (4 x STM16) would be in your application. Think of the 10GEWAN as similar to a POS, which is a single concatenated STM interface containing a block of data. Your STM64 is 4 blocks of STM16 data"

STM64C/OC192C concatenated doesn/t mean that it is a single payload of 10G it can be but not always.

If an interface is STM64 then we can break it into E1 and provide monitoring cappabilites . Even if 1 E1 have error there are bytes which can tell which E1 have error.

If an interface is STM64C/OC192c then i cannot break it into E1 but i can break into bigger chunks like STM1/4/16 etc depending upon the spec. Concatenated payloads provide more bandwidth as they use some bytes which otherwise are used for monitoring purpose. It is possible for some application STM64C made of 1 STM64 but i think not all.

That is my understanding. From Cisco

Each version of the Cisco OC-192/STM-64 interface cards provides a SONET-compliant 9.95328-Gbps high-speed interface. The transmitter and receiver reside on the same card and are interconnected to the fiber using standard SC connectors angled down relative to the faceplate to reduce stress on the optical fibers. The cards carry concatenated payloads of STS-3c/VC-4, STS-6c/VC-4-2c, STS-12c/VC-4-4c, STS-24c/VC-4-8c, STS-48c/VC-4-16c, and OC-192c/VC-4-64c, as well as payloads on an STS-1, VC-3, VC-12, and VT1.5 basis

Is it possible to have STM-64c (which is concatenated) on one side (toward router) and on another 4 x STM16?

Refer the manual if STM64C are made of STM16 then you can. Dont expect to break into STm1 but STM 16 possible.

we can connect 10GEWAN-PHY interface to STM-64c interface (which is concatenated), if it is STM-64 we can't?

You can connect 10GEWAN PHY to STM64c or STM 64 .Cisco doesnot says it is for STm64/64c so i expect can be configured for both.

10GE-WAN-PHY I can only connect to 10GE-WAN-PHY? (If it is not declared 10GE-WAN-PHY on interface then I can't connect it to other 10GE-WAN-PHY interface)

10GEWAN cannot be connecetd to 10GELAN if that is your question. Both have to be the same type as they are working on different bit rate.

Antonio_1_2 · ‎07-25-2011

Hello,

please one more question, just to clarify myself:

If I understood you correctly: so can we say that generally we can connect 10GEWAN-PHY interface to STM-64c interface (which is concatenated), if it is STM-64 we can't?

Or 10GE-WAN-PHY I can only connect to 10GE-WAN-PHY? (If it is not declared 10GE-WAN-PHY on interface then I can't connect it to other 10GE-WAN-PHY interface)?

Regards,

A

viyuan700 · ‎07-21-2011

1) When I connect 10GE WAN-PHY router port to STM-64 box, will router send STM-64 frames, or it has different frames then SDH?

Is the 10GE WAN-PHY also compatibile with OC-192?

Yes it sends STM-64 frames (but it doesnot have network management features which SONET/SDH STM64 interface have) See this link

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/modules/ps6267/product_data_sheet0900aecd80715dc5.html

So one to connect to a DWDM STM 64 /SONET- 192 trasponder which then makes a proper SDH/SONET frame with all those management bytes.

Same port can be either used for STM 64 or SONET 192. This STM64/SONET192 are still made from smaller SDH/SONET frames

2) Do you know if Cisco has a box that can interface two boxes STM64----OC192 (or OC-3 --- STM-1)? Which type of box is that generaly?

Are you crossing continent with your own infrastruture , service provider have crossconnect that do that for them this conversionTellabs,Fujitsu etc RAD for smaller line rates ? Cisco have boxes which either can be SDH or SONET but see this link. Might be helpful.

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/optical/15000r5_0/planning/guide/r50sdhtr.pdf

3) (router)10GE-WAN-PHY-----STM-64/OTU-2 (SDH/SONET box) 4xSTM-16/OTU-1-----4xSTM16/OTU-1(dwdm).

I wasn't clear enough in my previous post. I was thinking to put box (multiplexer) between router and DWDM, which on one side toward router will have STM-64 and toward DWDM will have four STM-16 ports.

Is the scheme that I corrected now above in point 3) allowed?

You can have point to point link where STM 64 are demultiplexed to STM 16. This is the way how 100G are trasnported over 10 x 10G. I dont see any benefit on a extra box with point to point link.

But If this 10GEWAN is your hub and have spokes which have router with STM 16 interface, then you can make 4 STM 16 pipes. All these you are trying to achieve are possible but you may need extra equipments to get the result.

For one more opinion you can consult with Solution specialist from Cisco. Generally all marketing guys try to sell more than what you need.

Antonio_1_2 · ‎07-22-2011

Hello,

my dwdm is between two countries (cca 1000km). I've just wanted to use currently free dwdm capacity (4xSTM-16).

On one side I have router with 10GE WAN PHY and on other 4 x STM-16. My idea was to bye some box that would aggregate 4 x STM-16 to STM-64. I just wanted solution that is cost effective.

I thought that this aggregating box 4 x STM-16 to STM-64.could be cheapper than 4 x STM-16 card. Especially because on other side of dwdm is differnet ISP and I can't dictate them to bye 4 X STM-16 card.

So you're opinion is that I should avoid addiotional box, and connect 4xSTM-16 directly on routers.

Thanks,

A.

Tom Randstrom · ‎07-22-2011

Now I understand.

The attached product link is something that tries to accomplish what your goal is; using current STM16s to transport 10GE. However, I think you will find (I have not confirmed this) that this company's solution will require a mux system at each end (bookended), providing 10GE transport but not allow the direct connection to your DWDM's 4 x STM16 interfaces to your router's 4 x STM16 interface (you will have to verify with them).

10G on 4x 2.5G Inverse Multiplexer

http://www.microsens.de/index.php?〈=en&nav=metro_view

Check ou the the System Catalog for a little more info.

Hope this helps!

Tom

vishwamur · ‎07-22-2011

my dwdm is between two countries (cca 1000km). I've just wanted to use currently free dwdm capacity (4xSTM-16).

Current free DWDM 4 STM 16 capacity, do you manage this DWDM then using 4 STM16 interface make sense. As you will not be managing one more piece of equipment. If you have ports available on your router. You can Compare 4 STM 16 V/s 10GEWAN, SDH mux. Would consider 10G option if i dont have port on Router or some other problem.

If that 10GEWAN you are terminating with ISP then your ISP will be able to break into 4 STM 16. If ISP manages your DWDM then I think 10GEWAN appoach will make more sense.

On one side I have router with 10GE WAN PHY and on other 4 x STM-16. My idea was to bye some box that would aggregate 4 x STM-16 to STM-64. I just wanted solution that is cost effective.

I thought that this aggregating box 4 x STM-16 to STM-64.could be cheapper than 4 x STM-16 card. Especially because on other side of dwdm is differnet ISP and I can't dictate them to bye 4 X STM-16 card

As in earlier step see what you have and compare cost of both option. Not just Capex cost but also Opex cost. See Capex+Opex is better for which option. If difference is not too much then avoid one more layer of troubleshooting.

Check how is your routing working in your case. Mostly hub you have DS3/STM1/4 and several remote sites works at less speed but ISP are managing all that.

Let me know if you have more questions.