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I'm not drinking the 'Kool-Aid' yet...Help me out...

voip7372
Level 4
Level 4

The Cisco Call Manager Kool-Aid that is :) Ok folks, I figured this would be the best place to ask this type of question since you all use this system and maybe have more insight than me. We have a Call Manager 4.0 with Unity voice mail (2 7970 phones, 2 7960 phones and 1 7940). This was purchased ($26,000) as a pilot test to see if we like it enough to start installing it in smaller offices. Right now I have it linked to an Avaya PBX (G3r) via ISDN PRI tie trunks. I'm using the uniform dial plan function in the G3r to send calls to certain extensions over the PRI to the Call Manager phone (only 5 phones right now for the test). Outgoing calls from the Call Manager route over the PRI, through the G3r and out to the PSTN trunks. That's all working fine.

Having been in the phone business as an installer, administrator and trainer since 1993 (I did everything from running the cable, installing the system to training the end users when complete) - at a small but fast growing Avaya business partner, I have loads of experience on everything from small to large Avaya systems and anything you can think of to connect to them (loudspeaker paging, etc). I'm also an Ericsson MD110 (PBX) certified installation technician. Suffice it to say, I'm a phone guy. Now that we've had this Call Manager installed for a few weeks, I've had time to get an impression of it. As of right now, there are more things I don't like about it than things I do like. An example would be a simple task like adding 1 phone. It takes 1 command (1 form to fill out) to add a phone in Avaya's system. But when I jump over to the Call Manager, I find myself having to add a device, add a user ID to go with that device, add a new button template if I want to edit the buttons and then add a new softkey template if I want to edit the softkeys...and of course then go to the phone again and change it so it's using those new templates...and don't forget to restart the phone to apply the new templates. Lots of jumping around for a simple task. All of this can be done on one form in Avaya's system.

Now don't go flaming me for saying I like Avaya better in many respects. There are quite a few things I DO like about the Call Manager, but I'm having trouble trying to make it do all the things I can do in Avaya's system. One of my biggest problems is call coverage. I read some things in Cisco's help guide about setting up hunt groups and doing other things to help cover calls. (I'm very familiar with hunt groups/ACD & call vectoring in Avaya's system) This would be like an executive/admin type of situation where the exec needs more sophisticated call coverage...maybe even needs a call to ring offsite and then pull back to voice mail or continue to cover to other phones in the office before it finally covers to voice mail. I read some about the IPMA feature and good grief it seems like a lot of administration to get setup and I'm not sure it would do what we need to anyway. My issue with Call Manager is the unnecessary complexity and how many steps it takes to do simple things that can be done in 5 minutes in an Avaya system...but it's taking much longer than that in Cisco's system to setup. That and the lack of standard features on Call Manager. When I say lack of standard features I mean when I look at the administration page in our G3r for a phone, I can go to a button and scroll through a list of (literally) 147 features that can be assign to a button. On Cisco's system it seems like there are very few options when it comes to what functions you can put on a button or features in general, on the phone admin page. Don't get me started on the 'services' issue...lol I didn't realize I'd need to be a developer to be able to create and then assign features to a phone! :) Granted, some of the services I've seen are kinda cool...

Continued in next post...

26 Replies 26

And no worries you can always use your cisco ip phones on your Avaya system, like i did.

see attached.

Kleo,

Avaya IP Office or 8700? Curious if you can provide a little more information.

Thanks

I'am using an s8700(2.01) and 7960 SIP phone flash image P0S3-07-0-00. by the way it can be any avaya media server except ip office.

Ah...so it's a SIP phone

just a plain old 7960 running sip software. whats pretty cool about avaya's sip implementation is that you can do a majority of SIPPING16/19 feature set BUT you can also extend many other features like Send All Calls to any sip phone..it's pretty cool.

I just want to put a few cents in this topic.

I have been testing, installation, implementation for CCM since 2.4.

Honestly, 2.4 - 3.1 is really sux...., the reason why because Cisco is not a telephony company at the beginning, they just want to take the market share first at that time......

3.3 to 4.1 is a decent product and a lot of features add in, but still way behind what Avaya, Nortel, Mitel can do.....

Cisco is somewhat like mircosoft (sorry to say that), most of company use their product(routers and switches, etc). So, people will always pick Cisco telephony product (cheaper than avaya ip telephony?? i guess)....... Cisco do a good job so far by adding more feature, system is more stable, more security (CSA).........

However, Cisco telephony techology is still behind Ayaya (compare admistrative, maintaince, feature set.....)

Hopefully, their Linux CCM V.5.0 will be a great great improvement.

My consulsion is Cisco will catch up Avaya.....hehe.....

Thanks

Joining the crowd on cisco "phones". I've been living with them since 2003.

Think "phone system" designed by "computer geeks" instead of by "phone geeks". My old phone system was install, program, and forget.

The Cisco is a DAILY babysitting job of multiple configuration screens, changes and "network" issues impacting the ability of the customers to PLACE RELIABLE PHONE CALLS.

Problems include multiple versions of phones, phone loads, operating systems, application versions, JAVA, etc. This works with that unless you have this other item. You NEED the matrix just to figure out what's what. (Plus basing a phone system on WINDOWS anything is a BIG no-no. Don't believe it, read the MS licensing agreement statement) I too am eagerly awaiting the Linux CM 5.

Lee

Have to agree , Cisco's solution is a such a mix of various products that admin is very cumbersome.

I am not a telephony person from the traditional world, my experience is with 3com's NBX and Cisco products.

The Cisco Move Add Change process needs some work. It really does take at least three more steps than other systems, to do something simple like change a last name or extension swap.

In the 3com system, its 1 simple web interface.

A redesign of the web tools would go a long way to more effeciency.

It takes about 1 full day to load a CCM from scratch for a new install, patch it, populate it with standard RPs, Partitions, CSS, etc etc.

craigallen
Level 1
Level 1

I appreciate that you may be a "phone guy" but Call Manager is far more than just a phone system. Think out of the box as it intergrates with all systems in the office. Maybe it's not one page management, however the levels of intergration acheivable on even a none CRA intergarted platform with call control scripts is incredible. I would recommend you take a moment to look at the manual on CRA and call flow scripting to see if you can achieve what you need. Also IPMA is a CTI application so a certain amout of effort to get it working is required. If you don't like it by Avaya.

See ya.

I'am a "computer guy" and CRA is very weak compared to any avaya applications. You can't knock avaya till you try it . cisco makes great network equipment but when it comes to voice..i gave avaya the nod

see ya

Well I figured it was about time to add my 2c worth as well :)

CallManager has certainly come a long way and with 4.x it finally has many of the features users have been asking for, although it is still missing a few. If there are features that you really cant live without, and can't seem to replicate, either hire an xml developer and get him to write them for you, or hassle your local Cisco SE to register it as a feature request. I would consider that most features of traditional PABXs are now available though, its just a matter of knowing how to configure them, and sometimes requires some outside-the-box thinking.

As far as adding users go, I have two responses to this one. The first is BAT. If you don't know it, learn to love it. BAT is your friend. BAT can reduce your administrative overhead dramatically. For example, amend change control procedures so that all phone updates must be provided in spreadsheet format. Make sure the spreadsheet matches the BAT template ;) It will take all of about 3 seconds to add new users. Alternatively, integrate CCM with Microsoft Active Directory! An equally effective time-saving strategy.

Of course major benefits with IP Telephony really come when you start really thinking about the integration with other systems that you can do.

Traditional voice guys often focus on user features and forget about the agility and versatility of a complete IP solution like Cisco's. And don't forget there are a bunch of things Cisco can do that the others can't. For example a single CallManager cluster servicing 1000s of phones over multiple sites... its just not done with the traditional PABXs!

Then think about Video, AD integration, xml applications, IVR, bulk administration, unified messaging, etc. Thats where IP tel really hits its form, and where Cisco has a much better case.

At the end of the day, you need to look at the business case for using IP Telephony. Every organisation will have different requirements and Cisco is not trying to cater to everyone. Whether you will gain significant advantages from Cisco needs to be addressed with your local Cisco Partner.

Cheers,

Guy Kelly

edavila
Level 1
Level 1

Considere having Cisco Professional Services or a Certified Partner helping you out with your pilot testing. Definetly get Cisco IP Tel courses too.

We installed a 1200 IP Phone System (LAN & WAN) using 2 Call Manager and 1 Unity System in a "DAY".

First have a clear picture of what you want, make all templates, device profiles, regions, IPMA´s Hunts, Pickups, etc, then have the BAT "Bulk Administration Tool" it is very cool and is really fast.

Welcome and have fun on the new Telephony World!!

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