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ASK THE EXPERT- INTRUSION DETECTION SYSTEMS (IDS)

ciscomoderator
Community Manager
Community Manager

Welcome to the Cisco Networking Professionals Ask the Expert conversation. This is an opportunity to discuss Intrusion Detection Systems with Cisco expert Marco Caballero. Marco is a Quality Assurance Technical Lead at Cisco Systems, Inc. He specializes in the 4200 Appliances IDS Modules, Catalyst 6500 IDS Modules, and the Access Router IDS Modules. Marco joined Cisco Systems in 1998 as a result of the Wheelgroup acquisition. Feel free to post any questions relating to Intrusion Detection Systems. Remember to use the rating system to let Marco know if you’ve received an adequate response.

 

Marco might not be able to answer each question due to the volume expected during this event. Our moderators will post many of the unanswered questions in other discussion forums shortly after the event. This event lasts through November 14. Visit this forum often to view responses to your questions and the questions of other community members.

 

81 Replies 81

jstewart
Level 1
Level 1

Hi, I had a problem a couple of days ago where my IDSM2's were working with the Event Viewer, but in the Security Monitor 1.2 (on the same Windows machine) on the Monitor Connections page they were not connected. I rebooted the Security Monitor machine and the sensors then were in Connected TLS state, but there must be an easier way to get the connections going again. How?

In the main Cisco Works login page you will need to:

Open Server Configuration

Open Administration

Open Process Management

Select Process Status to view the current status of each process. You will want to ensure that all of the processes are running.

The IDS_Receiver and NRPostOfficedD processes are responsible for connecting to and getting events from the sensors.

If necessary you can stop and restart these processes with the "Stop Process" and "Restart Process" selections.

xtam1
Level 1
Level 1

my new IDS is Version 4.0(1)S37 and i want to upgrade so 1st i try to upgrade it with version Version 4.1(1)S47, after the upgrade the command-control interface is disabled.. So kindly could someone help me resolving this problem?!!

Here you are the sh interfaces before and after the upgrade:

Before the upgrade:

===================

command-control is up

Internet address is 10.43.11.254, subnet mask is 255.255.255.0, telnet is enabled.

Hardware is eth1, tx

Network Statistics

eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:06:5B:8B:6A:FA

inet addr:10.43.11.254 Bcast:10.43.11.255 Mask:255.255.255.0

UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1

RX packets:371 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0

TX packets:70 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0

collisions:0 txqueuelen:100

RX bytes:28664 (27.9 Kb) TX bytes:16431 (16.0 Kb)

Interrupt:16 Base address:0xdcc0 Memory:feb20000-feb40000

Group 0 is up

Sensing ports int2

Logical virtual sensor configuration: virtualSensor

Logical alarm channel configuration: virtualAlarm

Sensing int1 is up

Hardware is eth1, TX

Reset port

Command control port

Sensing int2 is up

Hardware is eth2, SX

Reset port

================================================

After the upgrade:

==================

command-control is up

Internet address is 10.43.11.254, subnet mask is 255.255.255.0, telnet is enabled.

Hardware is eth1, tx

Network Statistics

eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:06:5B:8B:6A:FA

inet addr:10.43.11.254 Bcast:10.43.11.255 Mask:255.255.255.0

UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1

RX packets:205 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0

TX packets:39 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0

collisions:0 txqueuelen:100

RX bytes:15388 (15.0 Kb) TX bytes:8157 (7.9 Kb)

Interrupt:16 Base address:0xdcc0 Memory:feb20000-feb40000

Group 0 is up

Sensing ports int2

Logical virtual sensor configuration: virtualSensor

Logical alarm channel configuration: virtualAlarm

Sensing int2 is up

Hardware is eth2, SX

Reset port

=================================================

When you state that the command and control interface is disabled, what are you basing this statement on?

Are you still able to ping the interface and remotely connect to the sensor using ssh or telnet?

If you are not able to ping the sensor or ssh/telnet to the sensor then I can provide more steps to help troubleshoot.

Or are you stating that the command and control is disabled based on the following lines not showing up in "show interfaces" in 4.1:

Sensing int1 is up

Hardware is eth1, TX

Reset port

Command control port

If this is the case, then you don't need to worry.

In version 4.0 the sensorApp process could be configured to monitor the command and control interface so the command and control interface was able to be selected as a sniffing interface.

In version 4.1, however, we had to change the drivers. Because of this change the sensorApp process is no longer able to monitor the command and control interface. This is because SensorApp opens the inteface in a way that is not compatible with the standard IP stack of the sensor.

So in version 4.1 the command and control interface is no longer selectable as a sniffing interface. So to sensorApp the interface is disabled, but to the actual Operating System the interface is up and working just fine with an IP assigned.

duchesne_ced
Level 1
Level 1

I've got two questions related to Ip logging in IDS version 4.0 option:

1- Currently i haven't found a way to delete old ip log session. possible or not ? If not, is there a feature enhancement request for this?

2- Ip logging is not yet integrated in Security monitor 1.2. I've already seen a feature enhancement request in a previous post for this. Is there a commitment to integrate it in the next version ? 1.3 or 2.0 ? and When ?

regards

In answer to question 1:

There is currently not a method for deleting the IP Logs on a version 4.x sensor. The logs are stored in a circular data store. The oldest logs are automatically overwritten by the newest logs.

There have been several requests to delete the IP Logs in verison 4.x to reduce the clutter of old IP logs seen when executing the command "iplog-status". This enhancement request has been passed onto the development team for consideration in a future version.

In answer 2:

The enhancement request has been made and I have personally worked with the VMS team in researching what would be necessary for including the option. I can not comment on if or when the feature might be available. I am pretty limited on what I can say about future versions on public forums like this.

dchen2
Level 1
Level 1

Hi,Marco

I am a new user of Cisco IDSM-2 module on 6513. We are running CatOS 8.1 with MSFC2. The IDS module itself is running OS 4.1(1)S47. I have some basic questions regarding the IDS module.

1. There are two options to capture traffic, one is the ACL capture and the other one is SPAN port. Which one is better?

2. There are total 6 Gb physical ports on the IDS module but when I use the IDM, I can only see 4 interfaces, (int1, int2, int7 and int8). How to match them and use them to balance the captured traffic?

3. Based on the manual, NetForensics is the only external appliance which support version 4.1. We are currently using NIE (Network Intelligence). Is there any way we can centralize the events?

4. If we purchase two IDS modules on the same chassis, is there any way to configure the failover?

In answer to 1:

In most cases it is a simple preference of the user, but there are a few specific cases where one is better than the other.

Personally I prefer to use VACL Capture. It provides more granularity at the IP layer to determine what I want monitored.

Other users, however, prefer to use Span for these in configuration. Also Span is well understood by most network administrators and has been used for several years, while VACL Capture is still fairly new to most users.

The situations where VACL Capture have an advantage are generally where more than one sensor will be deployed. There are a limited number of span sessions that are supported by the switch. Because of the IDS sensor's need to see both directions for a TCP connection (client->server, and server->client) this many times requires a Both (TX+RX) span session. The Cat 6500 has a limit of 2 Span sessions when doing Both TX and RX.

With VACL Capture, however, the limitation is generally a one sensor per vlan limitation (when the switch is not routing - read more below). So if you have 10 vlans then you could have 10 sensors with each sensor monitoring just one of the vlans.

With Span you are usually limited to 2 sensors, but with VACL Capture you are generally limited by the number of vlans being monitored.

However, the one exception to the above is when the switch (or the MSFC) is doing routing between vlans. The routing interacts with VACL Capture in some unique ways. Instead of being able to capture both client->server traffic and server->client traffic on the same vlan; the client->server traffic is captured on the server vlan, and the server->client traffic is captured on the client vlan.

Since the sensor needs to see both sides of the connection the sensor needs to monitor both vlans. Expand this to a situation where multiple vlans are being routed between and you have a situation where one sensor must monitor All of the vlans. You can no longer monitor each vlan with a different sensor. This is one situation where span has a small advantage. With VACL Capture you are limited to one sensor and have to use the VACL to limit the packets being captured, but with Span you can at least increase this to 2 sensors for monitoring.

In answer to question 2:

The IDSM2 is built off a standard base hardware that is used in multiple different service modules in the Cat 6500 switch. Each service module had different requirements for the number of ports. So the hardware development decided to implement the maximum number of required ports and let the software team decide which ports would be populated and used.

In the IDSM-2 there are only 4 ports that are needed and used.

Port 1 is what we call the TCP Reset Port

Port 2 is the command and control Port

Ports 3-6 are not used by the IDSM-2

Ports 7 and 8 are the sniffing ports.

Port 2 is the command and control port and is the interface on which you assign an ip address. In the switch configuration you assign this port to your command and control vlan.

Ports 7 and 8 are both sniffing interfaces. In most scenarios a user really only needs to configure port 7. In most cases users can clear all the vlans off port 8's configuration and leave it alone (clearing the vlans will prevent it from seeing multicast and broadcast packets you aren't wanting to monitor).

So in most situations there is not need to load balance across ports 7 and 8, and instead just use 7.

There are only a few cases where port 8 needs to be configured. If you are attempting to use VACL Capture to monitor one set of vlans, and span to monitor another set of vlans or ports; then you can set port 7 as the VACL Capture port, and port 8 as the span destination port.

Occasionally the switch's buffer on port 7 may be overrun during high bursts of traffic. In these situations a user could set up port 7 to monitor some of the vlans, and port 8 to monitor the other half of the vlans. This doesn't increase the performance of the IDSM2, but does allow the sensor to see packets that the switch might otherwise have dropped. IN many cases though, if port 7 is overrun the sensor is already overwhelmed and adding port 8 doesn't really help.

Ports 7 and 8 do not have the ability to send packets. For this we had to have another port. This is why port 1 is the TCP Reset port, and is only used for sending TCP Resets. So do not configure this port as a VACL Capture or Span destination port.

As for configuration, the easiest method is to simply stay with the default allowing it to trunk all vlans. If you want to minimize the configuration then you can set it to trunk only the vlans being monitored by both ports 7 and 8.

One side note here. Some users have changed the native vlans of ports 7 and 8 using the "set vlan" command. If you choose to do this, then you will need to set the same native vlan on ports 1, 7, and 8. This is because the native vlan traffic will be sent to the sensor without vlan headers, and so the TCP Resets that may result will also not have vlan headers. The only way to get the TCP Resets onto the correct vlan is to have all 3 ports configured for the same native vlan.

In answer to question number 3:

I am not sure which manual you are referring to. Cisco has published a standard for third party vendors to connect to Cisco sensors and pull events. NetForensics has implemented this standard as well as a few other vendors. You can contact NIE and other vendors and ask if they have implemented an RDEP client to connect to and pull events from a Cisco version 4.x sensor.

Of course Cisco's own VMS with Security Monitor can be used to view the version 4.x events. VMS can be purchased at an additional cost and can pull events from multiple sensors.

Or you can download the Intrusion Detection Event Viewer (IEV) which is available at no extra charge and can be used to view events from up to 5 sensors.

Some users have even chosen to implement their own RDEP client to connect to and pull events from the sensor.

If you are interested in this option then contact the TAC and ask for a link to the RDEP specification. There are a few up front questions you have to answer before getting access.

I would give you the link now, but I can't remember what it is right now.

In answer to question 4:

Failover is not currently supported. I have heard of users implementing a sort of failover. Both IDSM-2s are configured to monitor the same traffic, and both IDSM2s are generating alarms for the same traffic. They set up their event viewer program to pull the alarms from the primary IDSM-2. If for some reason the primary IDSM-2 stops responding, then they go look at the alarms from the secondary IDSM-2. Some users will have the alarms already being collected from the second IDSM-2 and may just ignore these alarms until the primary goes down, or even manage them alongside the alarms for the primary sensor. Other users will wait until the primary sensor goes down, and then in their event viewer will configure to connect to the secondary IDSM2. In configuring it to connect to the second IDSM2 the viewer often has the ability to pull in older alarms. The user will find the time of the last alarms from the primary and begin querying the secondary from that time forward.

travis-dennis_2
Level 7
Level 7

Hello Marco, Is there any chance we will see an IDS blade for the 4500 seriers routers like we have in 6500 series? I think this would be a great way to protect against internal threats.

This has been requested and has been considered and researched.

I am not aware of a final decision on whether or not an IDS blade for the 4500 switches.

I will gladly pass on your request.

david.d
Level 1
Level 1

Management of non-VMS Event Viewer and CTR. I cannot locate documentation describing application layout in terms of logs, status/health of the applications etc. Meanwhile poking around the directory structure is helping me understand some of what is going on.

Thanks

David

Not a very well phrased question... Is there documentation on the Cisco web site that addresses this concern? If not, is there internal documentation that could be made available?

Thanks

David

It sounds like what you are asking for is a version 4.x architecture document similar to the one available for version 3.x sensors?

I have discussed this with our documentation team and they are considering adding a section to the existing user guides that would detail the 4.x architecture including processes, features, and directory structure.

I am not sure when they are planning to do this.

In the meantime I will try to write up a few paragraphs on the basic 4.x architecture and post it in reply to this post. If there is something you would like me to include then please let me know.

Never looked at 3.x information so reviewing the older docs has been beneficial. Thanks for the tip and I look forward to any additional info specific to 4.x.

Thanks

Just to let you know that I haven't forgotten about the 4.x architecture description.

It is just taking a little longer to put it together than I had thought.

If I don't get it posted before the end of the Ask The Expert Event then I will post it as a new post on the Forum.