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Get the latest Cisco news in this December issue of the Cisco Small Business Monthly Newsletter

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Re: WAP4410N - Will these ever work properly?

They will only replace then with wap121 the 321 is dual band

Sent from Mikes iPhone

Beginner

Re: WAP4410N - Will these ever work properly?

So Michael you have no issues with this AP at all? are you using it as a standalone AP or do you have more in your network?

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Beginner

Re: WAP4410N - Will these ever work properly?

I also had some Internet access problem with WAP4410N.

I've got an answer from Cisco Service team(00308132371), there was a problem with old firmware version(2.0.1.0).

After upgrade to 2.0.4.2, It's working properly.

As I heard from Service team, old firmware have internet access issue with more than 2 WAP4410N.

Is it true?

How can I get some details of old firmware's problem?(ex. sometimes AP cannot handle a data. / There were some communication error with more than 2AP, etc..)

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Beginner

Re: WAP4410N - Will these ever work properly?

Hi Sanghyuk,

It is definitely not working properly with 2.0.4.2, I have upgraded both my units and have exactly the same issues as with the older firmware.

Mike

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Beginner

WAP4410N - Will these ever work properly?

I've had this access point for a year or so now. Never upgraded firmware on it, the current version is:

PID VID:  WAP4410N-E V02
Software Version:  2.0.2.1

I've had it running for a couple of months as an access point in my private environment. Simply put, its performance was stunning. I had installed it in an attic with a simple roof with standard roof tiles above it. I would still have a connection both IN my house (through walls/windows) and about in a radius of an average of 100 meters around the house - and all of that with a simple and rather cheap Acer notebook with a MIMO capable 802.11n adapter.

The highlight was that we have a 100, 200 m high hill at approximately 1km distance to our house where there is a nice place with some benches where you'd often walk up to and sit there and look over the valley. It has pretty much line of sight to our house, and distance is approximately 1km, and I still have a connection up there! Only at 1-5 mbit, but my notebook will join our house WLAN from up there. And that is mind you still with the WAP4410N behind a roof, and with standard antennas.

Since then I switched to a Cisco 1250 as my main access point, only because it has way more configuration options, better logging, and is simply put more flexible and professional. It doesn't completely match the performance of the WAP4410N however. I now mostly have E2000s around the house with dd-wrt firmware installed as wireless clients, as that will offer more performance than internal notebook adapters or internal PCI adapters for the PC. On my main computer I wanted a little more performance though, so recently I switched the WAP4410N as a client. What can I say - the E2000 gave me 3-4 mb/s speeds, the 4410N now gives me at least 5 mb/s, sometimes up to 8mb/s. And perhaps most importantly, doing things over the network has become much more responsive.

That through a window and a roof and about 30 meters distance to the AP, with no direct line of sight. If you use cheap hardware you might not even get a connection in that scenario! Let alone a stable connection and adequate speeds. Anyone who has practical experience with WLAN knows that such speeds through obstacles are very rarely ever reached.

On stability: When I had the 4410N in AP mode, I remember it freezing on me probably once a month or so. The Cisco 1250 does exactly the same. There obviously is no AP at any cost that will not hang up from time to time and need to be restarted. In client mode I have no issues with the 4410N either, hasn't frozen on me so far.

I read these went out of production. I have still seen them selling though at some online vendors. I suggest you pick one up while you still can - the newer Linksys APs with the "Exxxx" names with internal antennas can't hold a candle to this impressive piece of kit!

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Enthusiast

Re: WAP4410N - Will these ever work properly?

I can tell you that we have lots of WAP4410N's out there and the key to stablity is forcing them to 100Mb/sec.  We use WPA2 AES with special characters (e.g. #, etc...), but the stability comes by forcing it to 100Mb/sec.  It's not perfect, but it does seem to solve the stability issues, at least for us.  Your mileage may vary...

Brian Bergin

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Beginner

WAP4410N - Will these ever work properly?

Did anyone find the solution for this issue ? forcing it to 100Mbps is not working

i updated the firmware and now i have downgraded the firmware to 2.0.4.2 and test it.

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Beginner

WAP4410N - Will these ever work properly?

There are no fixes for this AP and it appears as though Cisco has ZERO interest in fixing it. I have tried flashing it, every different combination possible for configuration and it is still useless. I have tried all the suggestions out there and it is still unstable. We actually have retired them completely after wasting a fortune on purchasing them for all our different businesses.

I have one left sitting on a desk which we are trying to hack and get dd-wrt running on it to try not to lose our entire investment in these APs

Good luck but research anything other than Cisco if you can. And remember that Cisco is now tracking your usage etc with their new firmware upgrades for routers which is another really good case against using their products anymore.

Mike

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Enthusiast

WAP4410N - Will these ever work properly?

Mike,

What exactly do you mean by tracking with new firmware upgrades?  If you're implying Cisco is tracking your day-to-day Internet activity I'd love to see your proof.  If you're talking about the availability of new firmware updates you can easily disable the automatic checking for new firmware in these newer Cisco devices, but other vendors have offered auto checking for upgrades for years and it's a good thing that Cisco has joined them.  This keeps the world safer by ensuring as many as possible are on the current firmware.  People who don't update to the latest patch levels are a huge cause of security breaches. 

You'll also have a very difficult time finding a mainstream vendor who doesn't track their customers' usage of new firmware.  Just be happy Cisco doesn't charge for small business firmware.  Go to any mid-sized or enterprise product like a Cisco ASA (5505 would be an SMB product while 5510 and higher move into enterprise levels) or Juniper NetScreen and try to upgrade the firmware without having a contract. 

I hate you have had such problems with your WAP4410Ns, but I have a good number of them out there, and while they're not the most reliable devices out there, they do work, but like every electronic device out there, they occasionally need rebooted.  It's why I recommend customers run theirs off a PoE switch so they can reboot it from a switch if necessary without having to walk to the other end of a building to do it.

One thing.  Have you confirmed with suppor you have v2 hardware?  If memory serves there were problems with v1 hardware and they swapped a lot of them for v2 hardware for similar reports, though that was a good while ago and these are not even made any more if I'm not mistaken.  Also, have you set both ends to 100/Full (e.g. the WAP4410N and your switch)?  I forgot to mention that you really need both ends forced to 100/Full for that to be effective.

Brian

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Beginner

WAP4410N - Will these ever work properly?

Hi Brian,

Here is just one of the articles talking about the tracking of user usage:

http://www.electronista.com/articles/12/07/03/e2700.e3500.e4500.cloud.routers.affected.rollback.possible/

I agree that "occasionally" an AP or Router has to be rebooted but I do not call 3 - 10 times a day, occassionally. Why not just come out with the possibility of a "CRON" job then in the firmware that we can set the APs to reboot themselves every 60 minutes or more often during office hours?

Both ends are forced to to 100/Full but it does not change anything. I have NOT confirmed if my hardware is V1 or V2 but will do so during the course of today and let you know.

Regards,

Mike

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Enthusiast

WAP4410N - Will these ever work properly?

Mike,

We don't use Cisco Home products so I hadn't seen this, but a quick Google search on cisco cloud services eula found a more recent posting:

http://blogs.cisco.com/home/update-answering-our-customers-questions-about-cisco-connect-cloud-2/

Honestly though, anyone who thinks their on-line habits are not tracked regardless of one's Cookie and other "privacy" settings should have much less concern about Cisco keeping firmware updated than what some of the other companies who track online habits.

Anyway, you are correct that you should not have to reboot an AP daily let alone 3-10 times/day. I'm betting you have v1 hardware. I'd call support and see if they'll exchange them with v2 hardware (assuming you're still on Cisco's firmware, no vendor will swap hardware that's had its factory authorized firmware swapped out). They did that a while back, a couple years ago or more I think, so I'm not sure if they'll do it this far into the product's live (it's EOL'd if I'm not mistaken).

Good luck...

Brian

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Beginner

WAP4410N - Will these ever work properly?

I'm in the same boat with these things. we have one at our office and have configured them at many different clients. Each one we've had to "massage" the settings to make them as stable as possible similar to the settings mentioned above. Most of our clients are aware of the wifi issues and have no problem power cycling the devices when they can't connect. Others, tho, want it fixed. This is what i've found will fix them, for good GUARANTEED:

THE "EXPENSIVE" WAY:

  • Call up your reseller, complain and get it RMA'd
  • If your reseller wont take it and its less than a year old, call up CISCO Tech Support or RMA line and get it replaced (but NOT with another WAP4410n)
  • Pay the difference for a CISCO WAP321. The difference is about $60, WAP321 doesn't have external antena's, it has all the same features, and it works.

THE CHEAP WAY:

  • Take the divice OFF of PoE and use a power brick (or wire the AP's to a dedicated PoE switch)
  • "Massage" the settings to get the AP working for at least a whole day
  • Drive down to your local Dollar General and buy a 99 cent christmas light timer
  • Set the timer to "reboot" the AP (or PoE switch) every night at bar time

Both of these have fixed our problems.