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Campus LAN Access Switch recommendation

marioderosa2008
Level 1
Level 1

Hi all,

I am looking at the specs of 2960X switches and 3750v2 switches as possible replacements for some old 3750 switches which are approaching End OF Support.

Am I right in understanding that the performance (both packet switching & backplane bandwidth) is better on the 2960X's than the 3750v2's? Although it looks like the 3750v2's are a lot more feature rich and also have dCEF.

The datacheets for the 2960X report 80gig Stacking bandwidth, and 216Gbps backplane bandwidth and at least 70mpps whereas the 3750v2's are only 32gig switching fabric bandwidth and a maximum forwarding rate of 13mpps! Is there something I am missing here??

I have no idea of costs, but just looking at getting the best value for money out of our Access Switches.

The 3650's and 3850's look good too but I imagine they are pretty costly compared to the 2960's and I do not think we need integrated WLCs in our access switches as the AP's we have in our building are minimal.

Any advice appreciated!

Thanks

Mario

9 Replies 9

Reza Sharifi
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame

Hi Mario,

The datacheets for the 2960X report 80gig Stacking bandwidth,

This 80gig number is incorrect.  I have 2960x series in stacking and we have never been able to see anything more than 20G for the entire stack.  Here is an output with 3 switches stacked.

If we connect only one of the stacking cable the ring-speed will show as 10gig.  With 2 stacking cables the total is 20gig.

 

cswitch-cc-cc#sh switch stack-ring speed

Stack Ring Speed        : 20G
Stack Ring Configuration: Full
Stack Ring Protocol     : FlexStack

Also, there are lots of bugs in the IOS versions for the 2960x series.  I know they are cheaper than the 3560x, 3750x and 3850s but if you have the budget the 3750x or 3850s are much better switches and will server you well in the long run.

HTH

I dont think you are running FlexStack PLUS thats why the max you can get is 40gig (full duplex) i believe...

 

Mario

As far as I know, there is only one FlexStack part # (C2960X-STACK) for the 2960X series switches.  If you think there is a second one can you provide the part number and the information?

 

Hi...

What model number of switches do you have in the stack? Not all 2960X switches support Flex Stack +

 

Mario

Here is the model number

WS-C2960X-48FPD-L

If this mode does not support Flex Stack +, do you know which model does?

 

That should support flex stack+

Joseph W. Doherty
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame

Disclaimer

The Author of this posting offers the information contained within this posting without consideration and with the reader's understanding that there's no implied or expressed suitability or fitness for any purpose. Information provided is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as rendering professional advice of any kind. Usage of this posting's information is solely at reader's own risk.

Liability Disclaimer

In no event shall Author be liable for any damages whatsoever (including, without limitation, damages for loss of use, data or profit) arising out of the use or inability to use the posting's information even if Author has been advised of the possibility of such damage.

Posting

BTW, you realize, 3750v2s are end-of-sale?

Correct, a 2960X might have higher fabric bandwidth and PPS ratings than a 3750v2, but that doesn't mean it's faster or better.  For fabric bandwidths and PPSs, you need to look at the needs of the ports on the device.

A 3750v2 with 48 copper FE ports, and 4 SFP gig ports, has 8.8 Gbps of port bandwidth.  So a non-blocking fabric needs to support 17.6 Gbps.  As you note, the 3750v2 fabric is listed as 32 Gbps, so you're covered there.

The same 8.8 Gbps of port bandwidth needs up to 13.0944 Mpps (1.488 Mpps per gig) for wire-rate for minimum size Ethernet.  Your noted 13 Mpps seems to cover that too.

So, basically, a 3750v2 switch is wire-rate capable.

When you get into stack bandwidth, even more that other switch parameters, there's lies, dam lies, and device performance specifications.  Trying to judge one stack architecture against the other, gets very complicated very quickly.

On the 2960 series, I believe Cisco is "adding" each switch to switch ring link to an aggregate total.  In an ideal situation, if traffic only needed to go from switch 1 to switch 2, and from switch 2 to switch 3, then the aggregate summation does have a bandwidth advantage over StackWise "bus" like ring usage.  If traffic needs to go from between all 3 switches, traffic to from switch 1 to switch 3 will need to share the bandwidth also being used by traffic from switch 1 to switch 2.

I.e. a 2960 80 Gbps doesn't mean you get 80 Gbps between just two switches, or the advantage of all 80 Gbps found within a maximum member 2960 stack.

(As an aside, compare StackWise vs. StackWise Plus.  The latter has twice the physical bandwidth, but it also operates much "smarter".  Again, unwinding how stacks work, and their impact to your needs, is complicated.)

There's also more to a switch's performance than raw bandwidths and PPS rates.  The switch's architecture, and other switch specifications, can make a big difference in real-world performance.  You'll find 3560/3750s with the fabric bandwidths and PPS rates same as some 49xx switches, but the latter often will deal with busy servers much, much better, due to different port buffering.

All the above, also means, without some real analysis of both your needs and devices being considered, anyone's recommendations should be taken with a large grain of salt; including mine.  ;)

That said, for simple L2 edge port usage, the less expensive 2960 series might be just fine for you.  If you want to reduce costs even more, you might also look at Cisco's SMB switches, some I think are also now stackable.

Thanks for your input John thats very helpful. I was looking on the Cisco End Of Support notices for the 3750's and the recommended replacement was the equivilent 3750v2 mode switch, so maybe thier datasheets need updating?

When I visit this link... http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/switches/catalyst-3750-series-switches/index.html ... there is no indication of these switches being end of sale.

Anyhow, thanks for the calculation for the fabric requirements per port. I guess, we are looking to replace the End oF Life kit we have without too much expense. So I was trying to understand whether if the 3750X and 2960X have the same specs but just better uplink capacity (which we wont need) and if the 2960 is a lower price, then we would go with that.

This is mainly for desk connectivity with IP phones and polycom video conferencing software on peoples machines. We have no utilisation issues with the 3750-24PS-E's that we are using now, so I just want a replacement model that can do the job.

I've been looking at the 3650's and 3850's but I do not think we will utilise the wireless features, nor the multipl 10gig uplink features, so I do not see a need to incurr the extra expense.

To me, the 2960X looks quick (for user access), is stackable (for resilience and ease of management) and they are non blocking and they seem to support all features of the ISE (for the future), so they look like a good buy to me.

Is the WS-C2960x-24PD-L fully wire rate... and whats the best way to calculate that? And how would you compare the 2960X to the 3750X version, because when I look at the numbers, the 2960X seems to edge it and the 3750X just seems very feature rich and can maybe handle server / storage traffic much better than the 2960X can do.

Thanks for your advice so far!

Mario

Disclaimer

The Author of this posting offers the information contained within this posting without consideration and with the reader's understanding that there's no implied or expressed suitability or fitness for any purpose. Information provided is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as rendering professional advice of any kind. Usage of this posting's information is solely at reader's own risk.

Liability Disclaimer

In no event shall Author be liable for any damages whatsoever (including, without limitation, damages for loss of use, data or profit) arising out of the use or inability to use the posting's information even if Author has been advised of the possibility of such damage.

Posting

Did you follow the End-of-Life and End-of-Sale Notices from you reference, to: 3650v2 and 3750v2: http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/catalyst-3750-series-switches/eos-eol-notice-c51-730227.html?

I believe the 3750X has more buffer RAM resources than the 2960X.  It's stack ports also have more bandwidth, 16G per port (converge faster too).

StackWise Plus has some (nice) advantages over StackWise.

The 24PD-L's forwarding and switching bandwidth look sufficient to cover all ports including FlexStack ports.  The switch is documented with 95.2 Mpps, which should also sufficiently cover, I believe, the copper ports, uplink ports and the optional FlexStack ports.

Again, for a simple user L2 edge port, the 2960X might be just fine for you.

 

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