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PQR
Beginner
Beginner

Backhaul 1562E or FluidMesh

A Cisco Backhaul solution is to be implemented in an area more than 1 km long and 300 km wide.

Everything has to work at 5GHz
The backhaul and the service to the users has to run at 5GHz.

Initially we contemplate APs 1562E, but we do not know if it can work in 2 different channels in 5GHz, one for the backhaul and one for the service to the users.

If it is not possible, can we use the same channel in 5GHz for the users and the backhaul with the 1562E? if I set the channel width to 160MHz will it help or will there be interference when using the same channel for the backhaul and the service to the users?

The last option is FluidMesh, but I don't know if it is the right solution, I would prefer to go for a solution with the 1562E APs.

@Rasika Nayanajith 

 
9 REPLIES 9
Leo Laohoo
VIP Community Legend


@PQR wrote:

A Cisco Backhaul solution is to be implemented in an area more than 1 km long and 300 km wide.

if I set the channel width to 160MHz will it help or will there be interference when using the same channel for the backhaul and the service to the users?


Set 160 Mhz and 5.0 Ghz will stop working, guaranteed.

What exactly are you trying to cover?  Is this indoor or outdoor?

is a solar plant, everything is outdoor

 

 

is a solar plant, everything is outdoor
I attach an image of cisco Backhaul where it performs the backhaul in 5GHz and also serves users in 5GHz with the same AP.

 
Leo Laohoo
VIP Community Legend

This can be done.  It is called MESH deployment and the 5.0 Ghz can be used for backhaul AND provide WiFi, HOWEVER, 160 Mhz is not ideal.  

This is a solar farm.  This means the wireless clients are not chatty.  So why enable 160 Mhz when 20 Mhz is more than sufficient.  
The wireless clients are probably sending stats to anyway.  

MESH AP (root and mesh AP) will be ideal, HOWEVER, there is a ratio of how many MESH AP per one root AP (I think it is one root AP for every three MESH AP).  Do not go beyond that.  

in this place customers will make video calls, etc.
Working all in 5GHz, won't there be interference when working on the same channel in 5GHz for both the backhaul and the users?

In any case, do you have any documentation to support that everything can work in 5GHz?

Leo Laohoo
VIP Community Legend


@PQR wrote:

do you have any documentation to support that everything can work in 5GHz?


Is this some kind of a joke question? 

NO ONE can guarantee "everything can work in 5 Ghz" without knowing the full picture.  Do not build a wireless network and pray all the wireless clients will join the network.  Build a wireless network based on the WORST POSSIBLE wireless client -- That has always been the mantra and this has always been the rule-of thumb.  

I have seen, through my own two eyes, an IoT (this is why it is called Internet of Trash) advertised as 802.11abgn capable but must first talk in 2.4 Ghz before switching to 5.0 Ghz.  

This topic started with "a solar farm".  Now more information has started to trickle in like "video calling".  

Tell you what ... Let's play a little game and here it goes: 

The AP is going to do MESH and provide wireless service.  The rules are: 

  • MESH and Root APs will have their own set of channels.  The channels must not be the same as the channels providing the wireless service. 
  • Because this is a solar farm, this means wide open spaces.  Translation:  No walls to "block" wireless transmissions.
  • And finally, let's play the game using 40 Mhz channel bond. 

And do remember dot point 2:  NO WALLS.  Zero attenuation.  

So far so good?  Now change that to 160 Mhz channel bond.  How many APs can you assign before each APs start bumping to each other.  

Allow me to share a funny marketing gimmick:  160 Mhz does not work with >2 APs.

 

Leo, I appreciate your response
But no, it's not a joke or anything, but apparently you didn't understand the initial query, it doesn't matter what kind of traffic goes through the backhaul, it simply has to work all in 5GHz, both backhaul and wireless service to the users.

And you are wrong with the documentation issue, in fact the daisy chain connection for backhaul in 1562e works with 5GHz and for the clients you have a local AP that can provide service only in 5GHz in another channel different from the backhaul.
I was also able to read something about Fluid Mesh and it seems to me another very good solution for this project.

I actually found documentation that supports the original request, I recommend you to read the CCNP Enterprise Wireless Design and Implementation book and configuration guide about 1562e and fluidmesh solutions.

Thank you very much, case closed

On the other hand, if wifi is halfduplex, it cannot receive user info and transmit in backhaul at the same time.
In addition, the AP does not have a buffer where it stores the user's info and then transmits it through the backhaul.

But it is very confusing because in the image I attached you can see that they do the backhaul in 5GHz and service the users in 5GHz at the same time.
But in other Cisco documentation, they only use 5GHz backhaul with a MAB and a local AP to transmit in 5GHz.
I attach those images

Arshadsaf
Collaborator

As the first thing conduct a site survey to understand the RF behavior at the site where the implementation will be, this may require setting up temporary setup using the equipment's you are planning to use. I prefer the Fluid mesh to be honest, but if the site survey concludes you can use 1562E with antennas with very narrow beam-widths as these are ideal for backhauls spanning long distances. You may also explore other antenna vendors, but expect limited support from Cisco if that's the case and make sure you are honoring the regulatory domains.

 

As leo advised don't exceed more than 3 MAP's per RAP. I would try to limit it to 2 or 1 as much as I can based on the client requirement. Also never set 160MHz for a P2P wireless backhaul as this can break easily and I haven't seen this any of the production networks, even for directly connected client serving AP's. It's always recommended to use 20MHz channels preferably a non-dfs channels, after determining the channel which will be used for Wireless P2P backhaul I will remove that from the RF profile assigned to all the nearby AP's in the vicinity, channel must be selected only after a site survey.

 

You can use the 5GHz for the backhaul and 2.4GHz radio for serving clients, below is a very good document covers all the points when designing a mesh wireless network. 

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/wireless/technology/mesh/8-6/b_mesh_86/Site_Preparation_and_Planning.html#ID3737__ID3765

 

If you require 5GHz to serve clients as well, then you have to consider an Dual 5GHz supported indoor AP (Professional) with correct antenna's, may be inside a enclosure. Depending on the controller and code Mesh supported AP's might differ. Please refer the release notes for the same.

______________
Arshad Safrulla

Thank you very much Arshadsaf,
I read that a RAP can connect up to 20 MAPs.
I thank you for the documentation sent, I will read it.
I also appreciate the respectful way of your reply.
I will follow you bro

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