Topology Discovery

[pmoore]

Hi All,

Just some comments around Topology Discovery, I am currently running the OnPlus probe from behind a SRW switch with a majority of my devices connected via this switch, the router is a SRP521 and has some wireless connections, at this stage OnPlus does not seem capable of accurately displaying the network Topology or identifying the Voice VLAN form the SRP, from my example all network elements are show as connected via the SRP521 , it also does not detect the VoiceVlan connected devices  ,

here is the example, this is what the router currently seeing so has a mixture of VLAN1 and VLAN100

However this is what OnPlus sees, missing the Voice VLAN100 and the devices are not behind their correct network element, The uc320 sits behind the switch as well as VLAN100 device on IP 192.168.100.101, The PC connected on 192.168.15.69 and IP Phone on 192.168.15.105 are also sitting behind the switch, yet network topology does not show this.

I am guessing that possibly related to firmware versions running on network elements have the capabilities of working with OnPlus,  Firmware currently running on the major elements are,

SRP521           1.01.20 (009) May  2 2011

SRW2024P      1.1.0.66

UC320              2.0.9 (3)

Regards

Phil Moore

[pmoore]

Well it's been a while and the trail looks to habve gone cold on this, I still see issues with the wireless VLAN 100 not being picked up, I have a misture of device connected to the tyhe wireless VoiceVlan which show in the SRP5xx yet onplus is not able to see these, these do include SPA525 phones.... John was looking at this offline but seems to have fallen of the grid at the moment, does anyone have any info on this ?

Regards

Phil Moore

[mrn]

Phil,

I worked with John on this problem, and I believe we have reached the extent of what can be done in the current version of OnPlus.

The OnPlus Appliance is only able to see advertisements on its default VLAN - whatever it gets from the switch port it is plugged into.

This means that devices on other VLANs have to be discovered indirectly. Discovering a device on VLAN 100 means that we need to be able to get information about it from another switch or router. At a minimum, we have to be able to find a MAC and IP address for the device.

This works with, for example, the UC 520 and Cicsco phones because the UC520 is able give us the information from its CDP neighbor table, and from its ARP table. Combining these two thigns and we get enough to create a decent device record.

The only way we will discover phones on your Wireless VLAN is if a supported device can provide us with both MAC and IP information, and I don't think that is the case on your network.

Do the missing phones have CDP records or Bonjour records that are seen by the UC320? On your network I believe this is the only shot we have at finding the devices.

- Mark

[pmoore]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the comments , the spa525's are connected to the SRP5xx which I thought was supported, the model for deployment we are looking at in the Hosted space is to use the SSPA5xx range for the handsets as well as the SRP5xx range as the router / access with cisco switches as well,  obviously we would be wanting to take advantage of the wireless voice VLAN for the 525's and the voice network was looking seriously at using OnPlus to monitor and manage at customers sites with deployed hosted equipment, predominiatly we want to use Cisco equipment but because we are using Video as well we need to have Video enable SIP devices so there will be the odd device that is non Cisco (if only Cisco had a option here... Hint Hint) the SRP5xx is being populated with ARP entries and is visable there, so basically what you are saying then the Cisco SRP5xx is actually not a compatable device and is not an option to work with Onplus in it's current format ?

Regards

Phil

[mrn]

The SRP is supported, and the SRP can discover devices if:

1) They are issuing CDP advertisements

2) They are present in the SRP's ARP table

And of course you have valid credentials.

You can probably check both of these things just by logging in to the administrative interface on the SRP. If your phones are visible in the CDP neighbor table, and their MAC address shows up in the ARP table, they should be discovered.

- Mark

[pmoore]

The issues must then relate to the SRP as there is no CDP info being populated via the wireless VLAN, fine via wired connections, arp is fine as I pointed out but not CDP

[mrn]

Hi Phil,

I'm not sure that CDP packets are propogated over wireless connections. I'll check with some of the people here who know better than me.

CDP is a Layer 2 protocol, designed to run over Ethernet, and 802.11 is a different Layer 2 medium, so there may be an inherent problem there. I'll get back to you on that ASAP.

- Mark

[mrn]

Okay, the very quick response I got internally was the the SRP does not support CDP over wireless. I don't have insight into the roadmap on that product, so i can't tell you if it is being looked at for a future release or not. You definitely should make your desires known to your contacts in sales.

We're definitely looking at ways to provide better support for VLANs, and your type of topology will be high on the list.

Do you know if the phones are also issuing bonjour advertisements on VLAN 100?

- Mark

[pmoore]

You beat me to it mark and thanks for following up, I queried this via the SRP500 beta guys i work with yesterday, looks to be the answer CDP not supported over wireless on the SRP5xx, I had enabled bonjour on the phones to see if it that was being detected over wireless VLAN100, Onplus didn't detect it so I am assuming at this stage the same applies to the wireless connection as for CDP, ARP is populated but nothing else.

Yes I agree with you around the topology, the wireless capablities of the spa525 and the SMB wireless products with Voice VLANing really make wireless VoIP deployments a real option, the value of OnPlus will be in it's ability to manage a customers network, the biggest concerns I have around deploying Hosted IP solutions is the managment at the customers site as I don't want to have valuable Tech staff looking at basic LAN faults within small SOHO deployments these should be able to be done by help desk staff not network engineers, Onplus with it's abilty to see inside the customer looks like given us those options, but if it can do only bits of it then starts to lose it's appeal from a Service providors point of view, so I would like to add my two cents around this type of support for the product.

Regards

Phil Moore 

[mshikha]

Hi Phil,

Your input is very valuable to us and we have made a note of your requirements. We continue to work on making topology / device discovery stronger. In the meantime, here are some tips and tricks for best results in discovering devices with OnPlus that may come handy - Best Practices for Device Discovery with OnPlus

Thanks,

Shikha

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