ok all I have an interesting one. we have a vpn tunnel to our site in oregon. That we are not using because there is a "asynchronous routing" I found that asynchronous is also called asymetric routing ? and that it in simple terms is when you go out one route to get to point b and point b takes another route to get back to you. I think the tech who discovered this might not have looked at the hole picture. not realizing we are not going over our vpn tunnel to get to the other network and they are not going over there tunnel as well to get to us. we are on our backup network our mpls route. so I would like to add in the route the interface on the firewall on the other side. I am thinking a static route needs to be added because I can not ping the interface on the other side? you probably need more detail.