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L2vpn vs L3vpn Use cases

nwekechampion
Level 3
Level 3

Hi Guys,

 

What would be the business/technical  use-case for implementing

L2vpn over L3vpn

apart from customer controlling

L3 (L2vpn)

?

 

Regards

Champ

2 Accepted Solutions

Accepted Solutions

Hello!
It really depends on your usecase. 

So we use

L2VPN's

for the following:
Data Center Extension, L2 extension between branches/metro ethernet services, broadcast domain extension...

L3VPN for


Server provider edge services for their customers, inter-branch connectivity (enable each branch to communicate with others over a shared service provider network while keeping their traffic isolated from each other)...

BR

****Kindly rate all useful posts*****

View solution in original post

Joseph W. Doherty
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame

". . . apart from customer controlling

L3 (L2vpn)

?"

Reading that question, and @marce1000 reference, unsure my understanding of these two technologies are the same.

As @DanielP211 describes, which to choose really depends on use case, although equipment considerations and scale come into consideration too.

Basically the issue is whether you want L2 or L3 connectivity between (usually groups/clusters of) hosts.

To OP question I quoted, unclear how customer cannot do their own routing over a

L2VPN

or how a customer has full routing control when using a

L3VPN

The big difference between using the two kinds of VPNs, with the L2 variety I have a shared L2 "medium" I can connect to but with L3, there's L3 hop(s) between my hosts.

To OP's later question, what's most common, I cannot say for others, but having used various "VPNs" for a sizeable international company, a couple of issues I haven't yet mentioned, for selection criteria, were also what's actually available at a particular location and cost.

View solution in original post

10 Replies 10

marce1000
VIP
VIP

 

       - FYI : https://www.techradar.com/vpn/l2vpn-vs-l3vpn-whats-the-difference

 M.



-- Each morning when I wake up and look into the mirror I always say ' Why am I so brilliant ? '
    When the mirror will then always repond to me with ' The only thing that exceeds your brilliance is your beauty! '

Hello!
It really depends on your usecase. 

So we use

L2VPN's

for the following:
Data Center Extension, L2 extension between branches/metro ethernet services, broadcast domain extension...

L3VPN for


Server provider edge services for their customers, inter-branch connectivity (enable each branch to communicate with others over a shared service provider network while keeping their traffic isolated from each other)...

BR

****Kindly rate all useful posts*****

Thank you Daniel!

From your knowledge which of the

L2vpn (VPWS/VPLS/EVPN)

flavors are more common?

And when would use this in the applications u provided above/below?

" Data Center Extension, L2 extension between branches/metro ethernet services, broadcast domain extension"

Joseph W. Doherty
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame

". . . apart from customer controlling

L3 (L2vpn)

?"

Reading that question, and @marce1000 reference, unsure my understanding of these two technologies are the same.

As @DanielP211 describes, which to choose really depends on use case, although equipment considerations and scale come into consideration too.

Basically the issue is whether you want L2 or L3 connectivity between (usually groups/clusters of) hosts.

To OP question I quoted, unclear how customer cannot do their own routing over a

L2VPN

or how a customer has full routing control when using a

L3VPN

The big difference between using the two kinds of VPNs, with the L2 variety I have a shared L2 "medium" I can connect to but with L3, there's L3 hop(s) between my hosts.

To OP's later question, what's most common, I cannot say for others, but having used various "VPNs" for a sizeable international company, a couple of issues I haven't yet mentioned, for selection criteria, were also what's actually available at a particular location and cost.

Hi Joseph,

In most discussions as per use-case for both, the reasoning is that

L2vpn

gives customer more control (routing-wise)

L3vpn

less control (routing-wise) as per below.

https://www.techradar.com/vpn/l2vpn-vs-l3vpn-whats-the-difference#:~:text=LV3PN%20(Layer%203,calls%20which%20are

https://ipwithease.com/layer-2-vs-layer-3-vpn/#:~:text=Difference%20Table%3A%20Layer%202%20vs%20Layer%203%20VPN

 

Was just wondering if there was any other  use case you might have encountered professionally.

Thanks for clarifying though.. yours and  @DanielP211  comments put it perspective. 

 

Thanks


@nwekechampion wrote:

L2vpn

gives customer more control (routing-wise)

L3vpn

less control (routing-wise) as per below.

Hmm, I don't of the difference so much as control (routing wise), but whether you can extend L2 between sites.

Traditionally, on many (old) WAN technologies, you could not extend L2, easily, as WAN technologies did not use Ethernet.

If you really, really needed to extend L2, you might use a L2 tunneling protocol, like L2TPv3.

But consider, you have to buildings in a campus interconnected by fiber.  The fiber provides L2, but do you actually span a L2 broadcast domain across the sites, or route between them?  So, here's where the "in control" arises, you have a choice.

Again, in (old) WAN technologies, when you want to connected to of your campus buildings across a public street, use usually used L3 because the media changed.

Consider, newer designed guides suggest more L3, within a LAN, then we use to do.  The reasons for using L3, generally also apply to remote sites, so not having a L2 option wasn't often much of a hardship (beyond routers and/or L3 switches were more expensive than L2 switches).

Where L2 VPNs have regained usage is for DC kind of networks, where you do want to directly extend L2 broadcast domains.

For most (?) "ordinary" Enterprise needs, often, logically, L3 is a better choice.

Ramblin Tech
Spotlight
Spotlight

If I might offer a slightly different view…

Are you asking about L2VPN vs L3VPN implementation from the perspective of

 1 - Overlay implementations on an internal IP network for internal use-cases?

 2 - An SP implementing a new service offering for external subscribers?

 3 - An external customer implementing CEs as a subscriber to an SP’s L2 or L3 VPN service offering?

For #1, we already have good answers here, but for #2 & 3 I would suggest looking long and hard at any business case before moving forward with an L3VPN. Why? Because L3VPNs are “legacy” products from SPs. That is, customer demand for them is dropping due to a massive shift in the market to SDWAN over the Internet. I know of a very large, very well known provider of L3VPNs who has halted further investment in their product (ie, not moving it to their next-gen edge routers) due to declining demand. Customers are becoming of the opinion that SDWAN over the Internet is cheaper and good enough, and are either implementing DIY-style or outsourcing the SDWAN to a managed-service SP. Before opting for an L3VPN subscription (or new service offering if you are an SP), you might consider SDWAN as an alternative and whether it is good enough for your requirements. 

Disclaimer: I am long in CSCO

Jim brings up a very good modern alternative to VPNs, of any kind (?), SD-WAN.

Below are 3 references, I quickly found, comparing them.

https://lightyear.ai/blogs/sd-wan-vs-vpn

https://www.fortinet.com/resources/cyberglossary/sd-wan-vs-vpn

https://digitalcarbon.io/blog/sd-wan-vs-ipsec-vpn/

I've only skimmed the above references, but I suspect, each touts SD-WAN as the next best thing; and they might be right.

However, my experience in Enterprise networks, the Enterprise, usually treats networks as a cost center.  I.e. a necessary expense to carry on their business, but one of which they would like to do as inexpensively as possible (ideally zero cost).  I.e. probably one of the primary reasons you'll find some Enterprise network devices, in operation, for decades.

For a SP, networking is their business, so they often do want the best so they can offer features to their customers.  It's a whole different mindset, i.e. their networking is a profit center.

So SPs, and network vendors, will "push" the latest and best technology.  Again, this doesn't mean what they are "pushing" is bad, just let's say their goals (i.e. increased revenue, for them) are not always best aligned with your Enterprise's "needs".

Laugh - story time (sorry if I've posted this one before - I don't recall)

Years ago, I was working a fairly good sized international software development company that, within the US, was using frame-relay.  As WAN costs were an ongoing cost, and it always seemed we didn't have enough bandwidth, our major WAN provider suggested we consider moving to ATM.  Why?  Well, the same bandwidth link would cost about 25% less!  Upper management, said, same for 25% less, do it!

Well the company very rapidly migrated frame-relay fractional and full DS-1 links to ATM, and the WAN slowed to a craw!

So, they assigned me to the determine what the problem was.

Well for a FR (frame-relay) link, having 512 Kbps of bandwidth, it might have a FR CIR of 64 Kbps.  (512 and 64 Kbps - hey, I did note this was years [cough decades] ago.)  This meant, frames exceeding the CIR would be marked DE (discard eligible), but in the US, at DS-1 and less bandwidth, frames were almost never discarded.

For ATM, a "like" link (I recall) was provide a PCR (peak cell rate) of 512 Kbps and SCR (sustained cell rate) of 64 Kbps.  Well, with ATM, the PCR is for a very short burst time, then the SCR is enforced on the (our) network device.

So, effectively, our usual 512 Kbps links were now only carrying 64 Kbps.  This explained the massive slowdown.

We asked our SP what to do.  They responded, oh, no problem, just purchase a higher SCR.  That, though, made these ATM links considerably more expensive than FR!  From the WAN SP, "We're sorry you didn't understand how SCR is enforced, unlike FR's CIR, but nothing else we can do for you."  (Not totally true, as they were quite willing to discuss other extra cost optional features that ATM supported that FR did not.)

Anyway, doing some more digging into ATM, and finding it's the router enforcing the SCR, I asked, what happens if we set the SCR to the PCR value too?  "ATM cells over the SCR rate, will be marked discard eligible and may be dropped.  (Basically the same as FR's CIR, and in practice, again for DS-1 and less links, they didn't drop cells.)

So, we now had with our ATM links, effectively, what we had before with FR, but at 25% less cost, right?  Well, no!

ATM has 53 byte cells, 48 bytes of which is payload (of the original packet).  So, you immediately have lost about 10% of your bandwidth to ATM overhead.

Oh, and ATM cell are always 53 bytes.  So, the last cell for a packet, on average, is likely only carrying 24 bytes your data, i.e. about 45% of the available bandwidth.

Oh, and if the ATM circuit, does drop a cell, it nicely sends to your far end, all the other cells.  Unfortunately, at the IP level, the whole packet needs to be retransmitted again!  Basically the same effect as getting a CRC error on the receiving end.

Oh, and of course we needed different interface modules to use ATM.

Oh, and of course, router IPBase didn't support ATM interface modules, so we had to upgrade IOS feature set.  Which also, increased the maintenance cost too.

Oh, and networking staff had to learn the ins and outs of dealing with this new WAN technology.  (For the engineer, that's good, engineers like learning new technologies, and something to add to the resume.  For the Enterprise, engineers are now spending time on "learning" and not on other issues.)

Bottom line, with ATM, we loss bandwidth relative to the former FR.

Did we actually save 25%?  No, but no one wanted to do a full cost comparison including the other incidental costs, but I doubt there was much of a net overall cost savings, if any.

Remember, whatever someone is trying to sell you - caveat emptor!

[edit PS:]

BTW, a few years later, WAN SP comes to us and says, you really should move to L3 VPN running on top of MPLS.  Same bandwidth will cost less and it has so many other features, like QoS support . . .

Well, I won't say what upper management decided, but I guess I can mention, shortly later, I got called into look into certain "new" network issues.  About that same time, I learned a lot about L3 VPNs.

As an aside, middle management, did ask my opinion of moving to the L3 VPNs, but upper management had already made their decision.  I noted, well there's one pitfall I could see you running into.  (Oh, and a couple of years later, why someone called me in to work on a major problem just like . . .)

Thanks heaps @Ramblin Tech !!

Good insight. I am of the same opinion as well from my research thus far and professional experience re: mpls VPN  decline.

Was just seeing if there was anything else I might have missed.

Is there any known implementation of Segment routing for VPN's as well? As segment routing can be used for SDN implementations as well?

"Is there any known implementation of Segment routing for VPN's as well? As segment routing can be used for SDN implementations as well?"

Search for "evpn segment routing" with your favorite browser and you should get lots of hits, but EVPN is not the only VPN that can be overlayed on SR. Also SR is very SDN-friendly as segment lists can be computed out-of-band from the data plane and distributed to the SR forwarding elements, which is the essence of SDN (disassociating the control plane from the data plane).

Disclaimer: I am long in CSCO
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