10 GE Cu Catalyst switches?

[eekman]

It's not uncommon to see rack servers shipping today with 10GE RJ45 NICs. However, finding a ToR switch suitable to connect it to is sort of hard. Why? Customers looks to buy non-enterprise switches since Cisco 10G switches is very costly.

So far I've found 10GE Cu interfaces (more than 8 of them) on the SG-series, Nexus 3000 and 9000 series. Is there an 10G IOS switch in production at all?

What's Ciscos approach to 10GE? Is there a major disadvantage to use 10G Cu over Twinax or optic tables that would explain the lack of 10G Cu switches?

Thanks

[Reza Sharifi]

Most high end servers these days come with both 10Gig copper as well as 10Gig fiber.  There are a couple options for 10Gig copper, you can use a copper 5500 series switch or if you already have the 5ks, 6ks, or 7ks installed, you can get a 10Gig copper FEX.

On the campus side, there are new 3850 switches with 24 or 48 10Gig copper ports, but they are not cheap.

HTH

[Paul Chapman]

Hi -

I'm going to start with the easy question first.  10GBASE-T requires quite a bit more power to operate than SFP+, and offers no alternate connectivity options (MM, SM, TwinAx).  Most environments using 10G up until recently only used it for DC systems (storage, high end servers, etc...) or for switch-to-switch connections.  IMHO, the wiring for Cat6 is generally large and unwieldy, making it unappealing for DC deployment (not that it isn't done).

I think that you are assuming 10G is cheap on the server, but it's not.  An off-the-shelf Dell still comes with a 1G LOM. If you want 10G, then it's typically a $500 upgrade. (some variation for brand and capabilities)  If the company is willing to pay an extra $500 per server to get 10G, then it should be willing to invest in the infrastructure to go with it.

I tend to agree with Reza that the Catalyst 10G capable switches are not cheap.  I find that the Nexus 9K and 3K both offer models that have an excellent price point in comparison.

You also need a Cisco VAR to help you get best pricing.  Never look at the MSRP for a Cisco device and think that's what you need to pay.

PSC

[eekman]

I agree. Let me rephrase the question a bit.

Earlier I think it was easier to point on a specific function or performance issue on low-end switches, and because of that it was easier to argue that a enterprise switch was worth the cost. The step from 10 to 100 to 1000 and now to 10G is a natural development and it's not weird that people expect 10G switches to be available. However, it is not, and I assume there is a reason for that.

Right now I have a customer who assumed they could connect new servers to 6880x VSS via RJ45. But there are no Cisco Cu SFP+ modules available as far as I can see, and we would like to avoid 3rd party transceivers. That's when I started digging in this. If Cisco does not sell copper SFPs there must be a reason for it. Googling around, I find arguments here and there pointing to power consumption and delay issues, but it feels a bit unconfirmed. The customer asks about the SG series (and other low-cost brands) and thinks it's weird that Cu SFPs are not available (I can't find any) when cheaper equipment can fill their needs (from their perspective). This is really a datacenter issue and not my area of knowledge, but I'm still curious.

Thanks Reza for the info on the 3850, I looked at it but must have missed that there are 10G RJ45 models available.

Assuming DC generally use fiber or twinax instead of RJ45, I would like to know why. Is there a performance issue with RJ45, or is it price related?

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Erik -

In my experience, buying both sides as SFP+ is usually the safest plan of action.  I've used Cisco twinax cables with many server and storage platforms with no issue.  In the last 2 years Cisco has significantly dropped the price on all cables 3m or shorter (3m cables now have an MSRP of $100).

I would say the reasoning is demand related.  There has not been a significant demand for 10GBASE-T connectivity.  We are now starting to see NBASE-T become more available primarily due to changes in requirements for WiFi and because it can be PoE enabled (where 10GBASE-T cannot).

My $.02

PSC

[Reza Sharifi]

Erik,

I agree with Paul. Cisco Twinax cables are not that expensive any more. Remember $100 for a 3m cable is list price and most customers get somewhere around 30 to 34% discount. If you purchase a lot from Cisco then the discount can even go higher. I also have seen in the last 2 or 3 years that more and more 3rd party Twinax cables work with Cisco devices specially in the data center area and the cost is around $50. If you need a 3rd party vendor name let me know. Bottom line, as long as your distance is less than 10m Twinax is a good and inexpensive solution.

HTH