Access Layer Switching 2960svs3560xvs3750xvs4506

cgoodman1976 · ‎01-18-2013

Hello All,

My management has tasked me to give them a high level overview of the different switching we can choose for our new building.

This is what I know so far.

4 Closets, each closet has 450 ports

One MDF room that is will contain one UCS Chassis and a Nimble iSCSI SAN.

I am working on the spreadsheet and it looks like this (Not totally filled):

	2960s	3560x	3750x	4506	4510

Approx cost (Each, 48PORT, POE+, 10G uplink, Dual PS, IP BASE)	6K	7K	8K	45K	75K
Max Capacity	192	432	432	192	384
Backplane speed	20	64	64	520	520
Pro	Least Expensive	Stackable to 9	Stackable to 9
Pro	Dual PS	Dual PS	Dual PS	Dual PS	Dual PS
Pro		Layer 3 opt	Layer 3 opt	Dual Sups	Dual Sups
Con				Expensive	Expensive
Con	No Dual PS
Con	Layer 2 Only
	Cannot stack more than 4

For the MDF I would like to use 2 Nexus 5548's with FEX's, and the layer 3 daughter board. For the IDF's I was thinking of two 4010's.

Please help me articulate what would be the best approach for my new building.

Thanks in advance.

dominic.caron · ‎01-18-2013

The spreasheet still need some work, here are a few pointers

The 4506E does not support dual sup engine. The maximum capacity is 240 ports per switch with 5 48 ports line card.
Calculate the cost for your the full project, do not try to divide it by 48 because of the modular switchs(4500)
Use light sup for the 4500 and evaluate which linecard fit your needs.
If you have no use for the stack-power, remove the 3750X.
Do some research on the lifespan of the standalone vs modular switch(and linecard). The TCO per year might change your initial estimate.

cgoodman1976 · ‎01-19-2013

Thanks for your response and insight

Joseph W. Doherty · ‎01-20-2013

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The Author of this posting offers the information contained within this posting without consideration and with the reader's understanding that there's no implied or expressed suitability or fitness for any purpose. Information provided is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as rendering professional advice of any kind. Usage of this posting's information is solely at reader's own risk.

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In no event shall Author be liable for any damages whatsoever (including, without limitation, damages for loss of use, data or profit) arising out of the use or inability to use the posting's information even if Author has been advised of the possibility of such damage.

Posting

dominic.caron wrote:

The spreasheet still need some work, here are a few pointers

The 4506E does not support dual sup engine. The maximum capacity is 240 ports per switch with 5 48 ports line card.
If you have no use for the stack-power, remove the 3750X.

As Dominic correctly notes, 4506E doesn't support dual sups, but if you want that redundancy, for the same number of line cards, you can use the 4507E.

Dominic is also correct that the 3750X offers stack-power, but it's unclear why he is suggesting removal if you don't want that feature. It's data stacking might be useful to you alone. If you do use the stack-power option, do note only 4 units can be in the same power group (noted: you can have more than one power group in the same stack, I believe) and there are limitations to how much power can be shared across the power links.

In your posted chart, you list the 3560X as stackable. That's incorrect if you mean like the 3750X or the 2960S.

Also besides the 2960S stack being limited to 4 units (as you've noted), it offers less bandwidth than the 3750X stack (as you've also noted) but it also, I believe, isn't quite as "nice". For example, I recall (?) its recovery is documented slower. I suspect it might not use the ring bandwidth as well (perhaps differences like StackWise vs. StackWisePlus).

Leo Laohoo · ‎01-18-2013

We just deployed a significant quantity of 4510R+E. We found out that if, for example, we want to deploy four or more 3750X in a floor cabinet then it's better to get a 4510R+E with Sup7E and PoE+ line cards. The price is the same.

Here's a little bit of a teaser for you ... Put a few blank column for the 4500R+E's soon-to-be released supervisor card, the Sup8E and a new switch, the 3850.

Talk to your Cisco SE/AM (not your authorized reseller) for more information about the two.

Going back to your spreadsheet, outright, I can elimate the 3560X. If you want 450 ports per data closet then you want to be looking at either a chassis or a switch that will support stacking. 2960S is also out of the question. It's true that the 2960S can support stacking BUT you can only stack UP TO four (4) 2960S.

This leaves you the 3750X and 3850X, 4500R+E and the 6500E. Next question is will you be doing MPLS to each data closet or not? If your answer is no, then you can remove 6500E.

cgoodman1976 · ‎01-19-2013

We will be doing MPLS to reach our datacenter but we can leave that for the MDF closet, in which I was thinking of the Nexus 5548's because we have a small dev server farm too. What are your thoughts?

One other question. My boss told me he wants to have Apple TV's all over the place to facilitate IPADS. From what I read on these forums, we need multicast support. Is that a true statement? Do you have a ball park figure of what multicast costs for Nexus gear ( if thats what we decide for core) ?

Leo Laohoo · ‎01-19-2013

My boss told me he wants to have Apple TV's all over the place to facilitate IPADS.

Ok, your choice has shrunk down to two: 3850 and the 4500R+E with Sup8E.

I now recommend you talk to your Cisco SE/AM in switching and wireless.

Joseph W. Doherty · ‎01-20-2013

Disclaimer

The Author of this posting offers the information contained within this posting without consideration and with the reader's understanding that there's no implied or expressed suitability or fitness for any purpose. Information provided is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as rendering professional advice of any kind. Usage of this posting's information is solely at reader's own risk.

Liability Disclaimer

In no event shall Author be liable for any damages whatsoever (including, without limitation, damages for loss of use, data or profit) arising out of the use or inability to use the posting's information even if Author has been advised of the possibility of such damage.

Posting

leolaohoo wrote:

We just deployed a significant quantity of 4510R+E. We found out that if, for example, we want to deploy four or more 3750X in a floor cabinet then it's better to get a 4510R+E with Sup7E and PoE+ line cards. The price is the same.

Leo these with single sup or dual sups? What licensing on the 3750X vs. the 4510R? For the former, same license on all stack units? List price or discounted? If discounted, same discount % on 3750X and 4510R? (You're in Australia, right? I'm also wondering whether there's any major geographic pricing differences, as I'm going by USA pricing.)

Reason I ask these questions, I don't doubt what you're saying, but I've found the break-even points between 3750X stacks and 4500 chassis very much depends on answers to the prior questions.

For the original poster - when comparing 3750X stacks to 4500 chassis, there are other factors to consider than just the price for x number of ports. For example, 3750X stack normally takes less rack space. The 4500 provides a true fabric (much better for East-West traffic). The 4500, seems to offer some additional feature, both software and hardware (are you considering IPv6?).

For Leo - BTW thanks for the mention of the 3850 and sup8e!

Leo Laohoo · ‎01-20-2013

Leo these with single sup or dual sups?

Single supervisor card. Please don't ask me WHY single. It's a long sob story.

What licensing on the 3750X vs. the 4510R?

Same, IP Base.

List price or discounted?  If discounted, same discount % on 3750X and 4510R?

Same discounts to all. I can't discuss the discount figures.

I'm also wondering whether there's any major geographic pricing differences, as I'm going by USA pricing.

Yes, USA pricing is cheaper as we have to "convert" (*wink*, *wink*, *cough*, *cough*) our curreny to US. Early last 2012, Cisco said that they'll increase prices because of the "appreciation of the US dollar". Now that the dollar has depreciated for the last 8 months, the prices have not gone done. Don't ask. I don't want to know. Another sob story.

Reason I ask these questions, I don't doubt what you're saying, but I've found the break-even points between 3750X stacks and 4500 chassis very much depends on answers to the prior questions.

You forgot one factor: Sales quota. Sales quota will reflect how the SE will sell the switch. My recommendation to the OP would be to iron out what the CURRENT and FUTURE requirements are. Cisco products are expensive and one doesn't want to make the wrong choice now and later find out that they should've gone to the other model. Put a comprehensive list down before talking to the SE and make sure you are aware of the "gotchas". If you are smart, you can even tell the SE, to generate a Proof of Concept configuration or a demo of what you guys want.

Leo Laohoo · ‎01-20-2013

For Leo - BTW thanks for the mention of the 3850 and sup8e!

Cisco SE and partners were specifically told (several times) to "reach out" to clients wanting to upgrade their old switches to the 3750X or 4500R+E with Sup7E.

These two models will be more interesting if you add wireless on top as they will include a built-in wireless LAN controller (WLC) that runs on Cisco IOS and configured using the very familiar CLI.

Joseph W. Doherty · ‎01-20-2013

Disclaimer

The Author of this posting offers the information contained within this posting without consideration and with the reader's understanding that there's no implied or expressed suitability or fitness for any purpose. Information provided is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as rendering professional advice of any kind. Usage of this posting's information is solely at reader's own risk.

Liability Disclaimer

In no event shall Author be liable for any damages whatsoever (including, without limitation, damages for loss of use, data or profit) arising out of the use or inability to use the posting's information even if Author has been advised of the possibility of such damage.

Posting

Leo, thanks again!

Just last week we asked Cisco to quote on 3750X and 4500 sup7e; our Cisco account manager didn't mention the 3850X or sup8e - be sure I'll be asking about both this week!

Leo Laohoo · ‎01-20-2013

Just last week we asked Cisco to quote on 3750X and 4500 sup7e; our Cisco account manager didn't mention the 3850X or sup8e - be sure I'll be asking about both this week!

I wished you didn't say this.

Talk to your SE in wireless and/or switching. They should know this.

Leo Laohoo · ‎01-21-2013

 Just last week we asked Cisco to quote on 3750X and 4500 sup7e; our Cisco account manager didn't mention the 3850X or sup8e - be sure I'll be asking about both this week!

Spoke to our SE and at the end of the 1-hour session, he turns around and asked, "Where the did you get these info from? You know MORE than I do!".