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Does the router check bw used when it load balances across two equal cost links?

g.eleftheriou
Level 1
Level 1

Hi all,

I have the following problem.

I have a router that sees a remote network through two paths that have equal cost.

However one path is under unitlized and the other is over half used.

Is there there anything else I can do to better utilize the two lines apart from changing routing to per packet instead of per flow?

thanks,

george

10 Replies 10

paolo bevilacqua
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame

There is nothing else you can do.

Others may say otherwise, but in my experience is experimental stuff that doesn't work well, and introduces instability.

Joseph W. Doherty
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame

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The Author of this posting  offers the information contained within this  posting without  consideration and with the reader's understanding that  there's no  implied or expressed suitability or fitness for any purpose.    Information provided is for informational purposes only and should not   be construed as rendering professional advice of any kind.  Usage of   this posting's information is solely at reader's own risk.

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Posting

You might want to look into OER/PfR.

JosephDoherty wrote:

You might want to look into OER/PfR.

Does your recommendation comes from first-hand experience of operating a production network in such a way ?

Disclaimer

The Author of this posting  offers the information contained within this posting without consideration and with the reader's understanding that there's no   implied or expressed suitability or fitness for any purpose.   Information provided is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as rendering professional advice of any kind.  Usage of  this posting's information is solely at reader's own risk.

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In no event shall Author be liable for any damages whatsoever    (including, without limitation, damages for loss of use, data or   profit) arising out of the use or inability to use the posting's information even if Author has been advised of the possibility of such  damage.

Posting

p.bevilacqua wrote:

JosephDoherty wrote:

You might want to look into OER/PfR.

Does your recommendation comes from first-hand experience of operating a production network in such a way ?

Yes it does.

JosephDoherty wrote:


Yes it does.

Very good and it would be great if you could add some details, for example how it deals with flows that quickly change their bandwidth, how it prevent out of order arrival when it moves flows from one link to another on changing conditions - assuming it does, and how it manages to balance traffic if it does not. Without using proven techniques of fragmentation and reassembling a'la ATM IMA or MLPPP.

Also which information you get in real time about flows, excellent would be some demonstrating "screenshot" taken from your real life experience of course.

Disclaimer

The Author of this posting offers the information contained within this posting without consideration and with the reader's understanding that there's no implied or expressed suitability or fitness for any purpose.  Information provided is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as rendering professional advice of any kind.  Usage of this posting's information is solely at reader's own risk.

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In no event shall Author be liable for any damages whatsoever (including, without limitation, damages for loss of use, data or profit) arising out of the use or inability to use the posting's information even if Author has been advised of the possibility of such damage.

Posting

p.bevilacqua wrote:

JosephDoherty wrote:


Yes it does.

Very good and it would be great if you could add some details, for example how it deals with flows that quickly change their bandwitdh, how it prever out of order arrival when it moves flows from one link to another on changing conditions - assuming it does, and how it manages to balance traffic if it does not. Without using proven tecniques of chapping and reassembling ala ATM IMA or MLPPP.

Also which information you get in real time about flow, excellent would be some demonstrating "screenshot" taken from your real life experience of course.

Yes it would be great to provide all the details and real-life "screenshot"s, but such is akin to asking same about production experience using a dynamic routing protocol and providing "screenshots" of something like routing database.

However, I think I can manage to answer some of your explict questions.

how it deals with flows that quickly change their bandwitdh

It doesn't, nor do you really want it to.

how it prever out of order arrival when it moves flows from one link to another on changing conditions 

It doesn't per-se, it changes a route or changes PBR and that change migrates the flow.  (And yes, it does move flows.)

Also which information you get in real time about flow,

You don't get much real-time information about a flow, it does accumulate its own stats, which you can "show", and it also can optionally throw syslog messages about what it's doing.  The PfR version can also throw stats to an external collector, somewhat akin to a Netflow stats collector, but at the time I was using OER/PfR, the collecter was 3rd party and didn't have it.

proven tecniques of chapping and reassembling ala ATM IMA or MLPPP.

Yes they are, but OER/PfR can do so much, much more.  If fact, in the case where I used it, OER/PfR was often using ATM IMA or MLPPP links, which was great for increasing bandwidth across one logical WAN link, but doesn't balance across multiple routers (each with IMA or MLPPP).  We already had pretty effective static load balancing across routers, whether via dynamic equal cost routing, GLBP, or even custom mHSRP, so much so OER/PfR was NOT implemented for link load balancing.  Why it was implemented was to deal with WAN cloud egress congestion and/or WAN cloud brown outs or WAN cloud black holes.  OER/PfR can do this because it monitor's flows using Netflow and optionally IP SLA (both activated depending on OER/PfR configuration).

In actual production usage, the biggest (initial) complainer was the engineer doing network performance monitoring, using explicit IP SLA,s because OER/PfR made most WAN network performance issues disappear.

PS:

I might add, don't recall I hit any major problems with the technology itself.  The engineer doing network statistics collection did run into an issue because of OER/PfR running Netflow.  Recall something about he was getting "doubled" stats.  Also don't recall whether it was finally considered a bug in OER/PfR or the collector we were using.

Although the technology, for me, worked, doesn't mean we didn't have some issues dealing using this technology.  These were the type of issues like where Cisco will note using an ACL will increase CPU load, but they don't document by how much.  Likewise, depending on your platform and traffic going through the box, being too granular on some OER/PfR features will overtax the box.

Sounds fantastic. The only feedback I have about it beside yours, comes from this same forum, and is that it fails to change default routing *and* clear NAT translations on a dual-homed NAT router using tracking, no matter the configuration attempts done using very promising, but only semi-documented commands.

Then, after having seen too many router crashes on things much simpler than that, you may understand my cautious approach about deploying something that after all, doesn't appears to have revolutionized the Internet yet.

Disclaimer

The Author of  this posting offers the information contained within this posting  without consideration and with the reader's understanding that there's  no implied or expressed suitability or fitness for any purpose.   Information provided is for informational purposes only and should not  be construed as rendering professional advice of any kind.  Usage of  this posting's information is solely at reader's own risk.

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In  no event shall Author be liable for any damages whatsoever (including,  without limitation, damages for loss of use, data or profit) arising out  of the use or inability to use the posting's information even if Author  has been advised of the possibility of such damage.

Posting

Don't have experience with OER/PfR and NAT.

As to feedback found on these forums, most come here because of problems, don't often see postings such as "today I implemented X and it worked exactly as documented and expected".

Nothing wrong being cautious, and I'm not one who believes in change just because it's new or because we can.  Conversely, I don't avoid the use of newer technology just because "gosh darn, it was good enough for grandpapa".  My criteria is, does it serve a real purpose, does it actually work?

What really demonstrated the need for OER/PfR capability, was the day one of our WAN cloud vendors had a node in England black hole our transatlantic traffic, but routing was fine.  Of course, other national and international traffic, including same vendor, was fine.  Even the vendor was slow to identify where the problem was.  Took our engineering staff 4 hours to localize the issue.  (OER/PfR should route around in seconds.)

As to insuring it works correctly, I assure you, didn't activate OER/PfR on our North and South America sites overnight.  Started with local office, near our main HQ, that had about 10 users.  Let that cook a month.  Even though no issues, and it worked as expected, intentionally took a year to roll out to other sites while "watching like a hawk".

Funny, though, you should mention "revolutionized the Internet" because all my OER/PfR implementations was on internal WAN routers except one instance for a pair of 3660s, with T3s, connected to the Internet.  The were carrying full Internet tables from two providers and BGP processing was killing them, especially the BGP scanner.  Dropped BGP, configured default routing, enabled OER with load balancing and passive flow analysis.  Worked wonderfully!

Hello Josep,

is it possible to use to share the configuration about OER/PfR for the pair of 3660s ?

Regards

Roberto Taccon

Disclaimer

The Author of this posting offers the information contained within this posting without consideration and with the reader's understanding that there's no implied or expressed suitability or fitness for any purpose.  Information provided is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as rendering professional advice of any kind.  Usage of this posting's information is solely at reader's own risk.

Liability Disclaimer

In no event shall Author be liable for any damages whatsoever (including, without limitation, damages for loss of use, data or profit) arising out of the use or inability to use the posting's information even if Author has been advised of the possibility of such damage.

Posting

Roberto, unfortunately I'm working for a different employer and I don't have copies of configs from prior company.  Also my current employer doesn't use OER/PfR.  There are several reasons why they don't, none, as far as I know, due to concerns about the technology, but things like: they also use Brand X; they use Cisco routers that don't support it; although they have equal capacity physical WAN links, they don't use both actively; and they prefer to upgrade the bandwidth capacity of WAN links.

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