09-04-2026 06:26 AM
hi all,
just curious, is there a way to extend your network ie vlans etc to and from “site a” to “site b” using dark fibre without having a firewall in “site b”
thanks,
rob
09-04-2026 07:08 AM - edited 09-04-2026 07:11 AM
Yes. If they're using existing carrier fiber, the provider typically delivers a Layer 2 point-to-point Ethernet circuit (Metro-E/MPLS/VPLS), making Site A and Site B appear directly connected even though the traffic traverses the provider's network in between.
09-04-2026 07:15 AM - edited 09-04-2026 07:18 AM
ohhhh i get it now so let me get this right
its not using a direct one fibre cable from site a and site b ie one straight cable
its using different provider fibre cables ie dark fibre companies but the end result is that it appears to be a point to point connection?
so does that mean i dont need to get an ISP to bring in a new cable to site b they just use existing cables already there
09-04-2026 07:33 AM
- @robertkwild Most of the time they will use existing cables with unused fiber pairs
M.
09-04-2026 07:48 AM
its not using a direct one fibre cable from site a and site b ie one straight cable
Usually that's always the case.
its using different provider fibre cables ie dark fibre companies but the end result is that it appears to be a point to point connection?
Usually must be the same provider.
Also, sometimes, depending on the underlying technology, the provided "p2p" is not exactly like a true p2p fiber link. For example, your "p2p" might be impacted by congestion within the underlying provider network or some frames might be prohibited.
so does that mean i dont need to get an ISP to bring in a new cable to site b they just use existing cables already there
Often, yes, there's an infrastructure already in place.
BTW, although the same company may be an ISP and SP, they are not the same aspect. Your site to site connectivity might be addressed by either, but their approaches will likely differ, especially if you really want direct L2 between sites.
BTW, another reason you may want to obtain consultation, sellers are most interested in selling, not always as much concerned with is it best for you.
09-05-2026 06:38 AM
>>> so does that mean i dont need to get an ISP to bring in a new cable to site b they just use existing cables already there <<<
when a provider lays down fiber cabling, he(she) usually also lays extra unused fiber over "intreresting trajects"
interesting meaning where it expects future customers.
these trajects are provided with "potholes" where a fiber can be diversed to a customer buiding.
if you are lucky at site-a a and site-b the prvider only needs to open the nearest pothole and from there lay a new cable to your company
if you are unlucky, the provider needs to create a new pothole near your location
tboth ways a dark fiber between site-a ans site-b is can be created.
some providers do not provide real dark fiber
they do the same as above but use DWDM optics over their fiber cable
for this they need to install equipment in your network room ,
and from this equipment can provide a point-to-point connection from site-a to site-b
real dark fiber is reasonably trustworthy to use without firewall, as it is the same as a fiber link within your own building
but the light can be tapped, so a risk remains.
the DWDM solution, is less secure as there is network aeuipment between the tho sites that is you do not manage.
and better advice is to use a firewall.
09-05-2026 07:32 AM
. . . and better advice is to use a firewall.
I completely agree that dark fiber is likely more secure, but using a FW, in its classical way, doesn't preclude traffic interception nor man-in-the-middle attacks. For secure communication, you'll want encryption, which might be done on a FW, if it supports it, but on non FW devices too. The latter might be a less expensive option.
For site-to-site communication, of any kind, once the media is outside your facility, it's physically less secure.
Consider, which really is more secure a dark fiber where you would need to detect a tap vs. the SP, illegitimately, tapping your private circuit where you would need to detect.
09-05-2026 09:34 AM
We need to be very careful about the topology being discussed. The OP asked about a dark fiber from siteA to siteB. The first question is who owns the fiber, and that may impact how the implementation works. If the fiber is owned by the organization which will use the connection it is easy. If the fiber is owned by some other entity then it gets a bit more complicated. If it is truly a connection directly from A to B (likely the case if fiber is owned by the organization) then it is very easy: you configure interfaces on both sides to which the fibre connects, you configure a vlan for the interfaces (or configure the interfaces as trunks and configure multiple vlans), you configure IP addresses for a subnet for the connection (or configure multiple IP addresses and subnets if a trunk), and configure IP routing between the sites. Pretty simple and effective. And no need for a firewall. But likely that is not the case. It is more likely that the fiber belongs to someone else. So the organization needs to contract with who owns the fiber. Perhaps the organization owning the fiber can provision a direct site to site connection. If so implementation is easy. But more likely the fiber provider will have the fiber from each customer site to provider, and provider will forward traffic from one site to the other. This is not so easy to implement, needing more complex routing, and presenting the possibility that traffic from outside might be injected into the network, for things like firewalls become necessary.
09-05-2026 11:47 AM - edited 09-05-2026 12:38 PM
NB: Accidently posted reply before I completed it.
We need to be very careful about the topology being discussed.
Indeed!
The first question is who owns the fiber, and that may impact how the implementation works. If the fiber is owned by the organization which will use the connection it is easy.
OP doesn't say who owns the dark fiber, but usually "dark fiber", as a term, at least to me, implies another party owns the fiber. The OP's later replies appear to confirm that assumption, i.e. another party owns the dark fiber, but if there is no other party involved, fully agree it's "easy", as it's not much different from activating any other fiber (although the transceivers tend to be more expensive, due to often much longer fiber run distances, also such transceivers often support monitoring stats the lower distance transceivers don't; the possibility of additional transceiver information might be something to consider that you've not encountered before).
. . . configure IP routing between the sites.
Based on OP, referencing extending VLANs, Rick's description of routing between sites may not apply, but it might still be considered.
Rick continues describing the probable complexity of a service provider, even a single one, providing complexity between sites, concluding with:
But more likely the fiber provider will have the fiber from each customer site to provider, and provider will forward traffic from one site to the other. This is not so easy to implement, needing more complex routing, and presenting the possibility that traffic from outside might be injected into the network, for things like firewalls become necessary.
Perhaps Rick's and my experience differ much, but whatever the complexity the service provider faces to provide a "private" link between your sites is, generally, invisible to the customer and further it's very, very unlikely another customer can access your network in any way which, usually, negates a need for FWs on such connections.
Do you have life jackets in your auto? There are cases where people drown when their auto enters a body of water, but it's very unlikely to happen to you.
Likewise, on a "private" service link, you can have FWs, but, it's probably not worth the expense.
That said, if you have a hub, with multiple private links, having all those links run through the same FW, especially if it's also being used for Internet access, may make sense, but what about the remote site(s) end? Now the expense may start to become noticeable.
BTW, if you connect sites via Internet, that can be quite different, mostly logically, but possibly physically too.
@robertkwild in a later reply, believe you mentioned both sites are physically within London. In that case, possibly a dark fiber connection might be possible, but more likely a MAN service provider can provide a logical/private p2p link, which to you, might be configured much similar to a dark fiber link.
Years ago, the company I was working for, had inter site p2p links that the physical hand off was usually LX gig. One site, though, had SX on one end and LX on the other. How can that be? Further, even the sites using LX, were they in LX range?
The answer was, they connected to an optical network, but that network was invisible to my equipment.
Rarely, we also sometimes had DWDM transceivers that connected to the optical network. Even those, though, were plug and use, i.e. interface configured the same regardless of transceiver type.
So, @robertkwild often you configure your equipment very much like you would use fiber, internally, between two of your devices. Practically, the two major differences, you get some kind of monthly bill for the private link and for some problems, you have to involve the service provider. (For example, a dark fiber link drops due to a physical backhoe cut. Provider may not know that, immediately. Further, it would be the provider who arranges and insures repair.
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