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Is a User Device Profile a User for 3&3 UCL upgrades?


How do you determine the no. of users for the 3&3 migration based on the current configs?

i.e.  I have a large customer (13,000 phones and with 22,000 User Device Profiles set up) and currently looking to migrate from CUCM 4.1 to 8.6.

So would that be 13,000 enhanced users and 9,000 essential users?

Based on various presentations when UCL/3&3 was launched if you had lots of user and hot desking that was the correct way to license.  i.e. when you had more “users” than physical phones.

However, with this customer a lot of the User Device Profiles have been created to call forward the directory number to Voicemail.  If these were to be recreated as a CTI route point would they then not count as a user and therefore not require a UCL license?

The 3&3 costs for 9000 plus essential users is no small beer ~$80k list, so would be good to know what the correct position on this is. i.e. a bit of config work would save a lot of $

Is there any definition of what a “user” is for UCL as I can’t find it in the ordering guides?

Whilst for a CUCM 8 upgrade this doesn't matter as UDP are not enforced by DLUs, I'm intyerested to see what will happen in CUCM 9 plus when there may be some form of user licensing count and sudderly 9000 UDPs may not work as they are not licensed folloing an upgrade.

6 Replies 6


This has been an age old problem. Frankly with the introduction of UCL and the backend still being DLU, it has been the classic case of cart before the horse. I am not sure how you got 80K list for 9000 users since it should be 3 dollars per user resulting in 27K list which I agree is still a big amount

Here’s how I have seen it, the users who have a phone assigned to them, convert them at enhanced. The users who use extension mobility profile and don’t have a phone require essential license. If the phone is in a public space you can use public space license

I agree that when 9.X comes out it remains to be seen how the software enforces it. there are sessions starting next yr to go through that process.

It would be great if someone from Cisco licensing can confirm this, AFAIK there is no need to license CTI RP, ports in my mind.



Hi, thanks for the response.

The cart before the horse is a bit of an under statement as trying to explain this lot to customers is a nightmare. Especially when they have no idea of the number of "users" on their systems and still count DLUs because that what CUCM tells them.

The 80K includes the cost of UCSS which bumps the price up.

Cant wait CUCM 9 and a new level of enhance licensing nightmare


Agree.  Halloween may be a more suitable time for Cisco Licensing announcements ;-(

Dont forget if you do UCSS 3 year (with 3&3) you should consider ESW for the same term.

More nighmares if the ESW expires before UCSS.

There is a user count tool being released next yr to aid with this process ☺ let’s see how well that works




Thanks - as usual, you have this correct.  (users who have a phone assigned to them, convert them at enhanced. The users who use extension mobility profile and don’t have a phone require essential license. If the phone is in a public space you can use public space license)

'User' is defined in UCSS and UCL sales guides.  Below guide I think also does a pretty good job describing the EM scenario as initially presented in this thread:

We have just developed a tool called a User Count Tool which is to be posted as an early beta to 9.0 initially in Collaboration User Group (CUG) here:

You should see it in the beta widget in 1st half of January.  Encourage you to sign up in CUG and download, trial it with CUCM's and give us feedback.  This tool will give you definitive user counts on pre-9.0 CUCM systems.

Regarding pricing, it's useful to recall that the old format of server based upgrades almost always produced an upgrade cost of same or more than is available today to non-UCSS customers via 3&3.  (2 servers alone would make up the $27K upgrade fee for the scenario quoted here, and there's a good chance there are more than 2 servers in this 9,000 user scenario).  While UCSS can be operationally painful, it is strategic to customers, partners and Cisco.  Our SW, as with most of the entp SW industry is sold with subscription - that's the model today and going forward.

I understand frustrations around licensing - so I want to be sure it's understood the 9.0 enhancements that are made are in the product and not simply to a commercial model.  We believe these enhancements will address many of the operational pain points for UC licensing as well as providing some cool deployment, management, and product trialing capabilities.

- Brett


Thanks for the confirmation


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