WRVS4400N dropping wireless clients

[matthewmascari]

WRVS4400N with firmware version V2.0.0.8.

After about an hour it routinely drops wireless clients.  Wired clients are fine.

Re initiating a connection from the clients usually restores the connection fine.  Sometimes this is just doing something to force the client to use the connection for some active function other times it's forcing the client to renew it's DHCP address or power cycling the client.  The same experience is happening with a TioVo on WiFi, an iPhone on WiFi, and a WAP4410N in Client Bridge mode.

While this may not sound that bad, it's creating 2 huge issues that shouldn't occur.

First, the wireless clients that are dropped are not accessible from other clients on the network until they reestablish their connection.  There is no indication on the client of an issue with the connection.  For example, a TiVo connected over WiFi isn't accessible from the network until it reestablishes it's connection.  It works fine then for a hour or so.

Second, for the WAP4410N (firmware 2.0.3.3) in Client Bridge mode, this client requires a power cycle to reconnect to the network.  In much less than an hour it stops responding to it's IP address for it's management page, but continues to pass traffic from the multiple wired items it's bridging.  Then, after about that same hour, it stops passing this traffic too.

I tried running the WAP4410N in WDS Bridge mode but was unable to get it to work.  For this testing, access to the management page was the test with no devices behind it.  So, it's possible that that access is what was broken and that it may have passed traffic.  No wireless clients need to connect to the WAP4410N, just the bridged wired clients.

This WAP4410N was previously acting as a brige to a WRT54G with no issues, but at G speeds.  Which makes me think it's an issue with the WRVS4400N dropping clients and the clients not knowing it.

(Originally posted in the Router forum, but there was no response there from anyone with any ideas.)

[David Carr]

Hey matthew, try running a wireless scan and see if there is any interference on the channel the wrvs4400n is setup on.  I use a free tool, know as inssider, it works great, it will give you the mac address of the access points, channel, and time line of all networks.  Try that and select a channel that is not being used and see if this stabilizes your wireless.  Remember wireless can be a stable technology, providing there is no interference.  Hope this helps.

[matthewmascari]

I've looked at all the active networks in the area, both with a laptop, an iPhone, and the Site Survey button in both the WRVS4400N and the WAP4410N.  There are other networks on channels 1, 6, 10, and 11.  My network is the only one on channel 8.

Looking at the signal strength from the TiVo that get's dropped (but doesn't know it's been dropped), it changes between 98% and 100%.  It's physically only 15 feet from the WRVS4400N, with only 1 wall to go through.

The WAP4410N is only about 20 feet away from the WRVS4400N.  This also doesn't explain why the WAP4410N will continue to pass traffic to the devices it's bridging but not be accessible over the wireless link.  It is accessible for a while after it's turned on, so it's not a configuration issue with allowing admin access over wireless.

It's more like either the WAP4410N has it's own IP interface failing after a while, but still works to bridge traffic for some time.  Or, the WRVS4400N forgets how to route traffic to the the WAP4410N's IP address but can still route traffic to the devices behind it.  And then, after a hour or so, this stops working too.

The WAP4410N is in "Wireless Client/Repeater" mode without allowing clients to attach.  Since attaching local clients became unusable after the bridge stopped passing traffic and it's not really needed.  Trying to use "Wireless WDS Bridge" mode has never worked.  Or, at least never allowed access to the WAP4410N admin console after turning on and disconnecting the ethernet cable.

I'm not sure if the issue is in the WAP4410N or in the WRVS4400N, but guessing that because another device get's dropped from the WRVS4400N and because I previously had the WAP4410N working as a bridge to a Linksys G router without issue, I'm guessing it's in the WRVS4400N that it just forgets how to route traffic to some wireless devices after a while.

I've reduced the DHCP time to 65 minutes and set the WPA key renewal to 4200 seconds, to try and make sure there is traffic being generated from devices, but this doesn't seem to keep the connection alive any better.

[matthewmascari]

Is there any valid reason for the admin screen of a WAP4410N acting as a bridge to a WRVS4400N to be accessible from a wired client on the WRVS4400N for an hour and then not be accessible anymore, while at the same time clients that are behind the WAP4410N bridge are still accessible from the same wired client on the WRVS4400N showing that traffic is definitely flowing over the bridged connection?

Where is the correct place to troubleshoot this issue?  On the WAP4410N or on the WRVS4400N, and what steps should be looked at next?

The documentation clearly states that this configuration should work.  And it does for about an hour.

[David Carr]

Matthew, give our SBSC a call at 866-606-1866 and let them get a troubleshooting ticket opened up and work with you on this. 

Thank You.

[matthewmascari]

Are there other versions of the firmware that are only available via the Cisco Small Business Support Center and not the general download site?

Are there other versions of the documentation that explain how to configure the device better than the help pages in the admin screens or the PDF manual?

Assuming one or both of those exist, is there a reason that can be shared why a call to support is required to get them instead of them being publicly available?

Or just if they exist and that a call to support can get them?  Since I'm not sure the point of calling support otherwise.

If neither of them exist, what's the goal of calling support other than to waste the time of the support people, my time, and for me to provide free QA testing to Cisco?

Right now, through some random attempts at DHCP times (90 minutes but not 60 or 120) and a Key Renewal of 86400 (which shouldn't be possible but is on the router by not the ap), I've got devices staying connected more regularly.

Right now, I'm left with a network where:

     The AP in Client mode cannot be accessed after the first hour, but it's passing traffic fine.

     Devices behind the AP can access the network fine (mostly), and be accessed fine.

     Other wireless clients can access the network fine (mostly) and are not dropping.

     The mostly is because those wireless clients can no longer see a wired client, but I'm not sure where this issue is yet.  The reverse works for the device behind the ap bridge but not the direct wireless client.

Changing the DHCP time and the Key Renewal time SHOULD HAVE HAD NO IMPACT on any of this.  That they did shows that it's a bug in the firmware of either both the router and the ap or just the router.  Not to mention that the router clearly took a value that the AP says is invalid.

Either way, it's not worth my time or the support teams to call unless the support team can offer better software or documentation than is publicly available.

[albertjames]

Hi Matthew,

I don't want to jump to conclusions here, but I am having a similar problem.

Is your laptop a Mac?  Are you using WPA2?

I have two isolated networks each with a WRVS4400N acting as router to the Internet.  In each network, all my PCs are fine, all my Apple products (including MacBook pros, iPhones, iPads) intermittently drop.  They still display the wireless/connected symbol with full strength, but have no ability to route to the Internet.

So I'm curious if you've tried PCs and Macs connecting to your WRVS4400N directly (without the WAP), and whether you see the same problem.

My next step is to try security other than WAP2, in case the problem I'm having is specific to that.

cheers,

Albert

[jamesgarvey]

I amhaving this exact same issue, mainly with Mac laptops.  I also notice that although my Comcast cable modem shows a continuous signal, all the clients pause for 15-20 seconds and then start receiving again.  I can tell the devices attached directly to the WRVS4400N are losing connection because I have a Cisco/AT&T Microcell attached to the router that shows (via a front signal indicator) that it has lost the connection.  This device is not wireless but wired.  The wireless devices require an IP reset (turning off airport or wireless card, or releasing/renewing IP config) before successfully connecting to othe network devices.

I have bandwidth management setup and have attempted to setup one channel for QoS for the microcell.  These problems have continued whether QoS is enabled or not.  I am on the latest firmware (2.0.2.1).

[mason.feuhrer]

I am on the latest firmware with my WRVS4400N and having very similar problems. I can get my laptops to connect (Mac, Windows, and Linux), but if they are put into sleep mode (lid closed on laptops, a period of no use on smartphones/tablets) and woken up, they will display that they are connected to the wireless network, most of them receive an IP address, but none are able to route to the internet. My Dell laptop is the one that gives me the most trouble with reconnecting, as I have to disconnect from the WiFi network, disable the hardware on the laptop, let it sit for about 5 minutes, and then I am able to re-connect and access the internet.

This happens for me on the following devices, so it's not limited to Apple devices:

Dell Lattitude E6510

Acer Aspire One A0722

Macbook Pro

iPhone 4

iPad

iPad 2

HP Touchpad

If anyone has come up with a solution for this issue, I'd love to hear it. After a month of using this router, having to run through the steps of disabling wireless adapters just to connect to a wireless network is a pain, and shouldn't be happening on a business class router.

[jamesgarvey]

bump. 

[vhato]

I'll take a stab at it:

Your scan revealed channels 1,6, 10 and 11 in use.  Depending on signal strength this is bad for you.  If they are all strong signals....this is horrible for all of you.  Definitively, channels 1, 6 and 11 are the only channels anyone using 2.4ghz really has available because of channel overlap. Using Channel 8 means you are colliding with devices from channel 4 all the way to channel 11.  And if you are forcing 40mhz channels, its getting worse since no bandwidth is available to use thanks to you and your neighbors.  My advice, stick with only channel 1, 6 and 10.  Which ever has the weakest signal, force your WRVS4400 on to that channel and hope its enough.  If that doesn't work and all your gear supports 802.11a, swap them to that.  802.11a uses the less used 5ghz frequencies as well as some 802.11n clients use 5ghz as well.  Very few cell phones use 802.11n 5ghz or 802.11a though.  But this is why 5ghz is so important, more room for more channels.  And using a WAP4410 only steals more channels.  You may have to sacrifice signal strength for connectivity and not use it unless its in an area that has no signal.

Here is a link to a site that shows you channel overlap. http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/kb_vigor_wlanchannels.html