Bad Telco workaround?

[lcaruso]

Hi,

I have a client with the following issue. Their ISP refuses to provide infrastructure (copper pair) with signal to noise ratios that would support even moderate DSL speeds. Ironic too that the switch is only two blocks away. It's in a rural area.

The client has tried everything including contacting the Public Service Commision in his State to get new infrastructure, but the local telco is notorious for not providing infrastructure (cheap).

Current DSL best case is 12Mbps down and 0.8Mbps up. Question: if the ISP would support it, could this client use two circuits and BGP to obtain a poor man's Symmetric DSL?

So if one circuit was "reversed" so the up speed was 12Mbps, could BGP be used to force outbound traffic from the client to use one circuit and inbound to the client use the other "normal" DSL circuit?

Running out of ideas.

[pnalamwa]

Hi Laruso,

Are we reffering to the traffic between two specifc locations or is this a web traffic .

Regards

Paresh

[lcaruso]

Thanks for your clarifying question. Yes, it is general internet traffic to any location.

[paolo bevilacqua · Accepted solution]

All that seem unlikely, ISPs do not support BGP on ADSLcircuits , and do not "reverse" circuits either.

[Leo Laohoo]

Look, xDSL is "cheap".  Which also translate to a non-existing SLA.  Good luck trying to get an ISP to fix a Layer 1 issue particularly when the user is a business end.

Particularly here in Australia, the ISP's mentality is like:  If you are a business then you can afford to get a business-grade line with better SLA.  Don't leech on the cheap xDSL and expect ISPs to bend over for you.  Not going to happen.

[lcaruso]

I understand, but this is a business class account with a static ip range, so it's really not that cheap, but cheaper than a T-1 from AT&T. This same ISP provide an associate of mine a retail DSL account with 50Mbps down and 10Mbps up simply because he lives in a locale with good copper.

Here in the USA, there's been a nationally funded initiative to bring high speed broadband to rural areas; problem is, this isn't one of those area, otherwise there would be a new infrastructure such as fiber to the curb. In this case, it's barbed wire to the curb.

Thanks TDS.

[shillings · Accepted solution]

Does any carrier offer a product called Ethernet-in-the-first Mile (IEEE 802.3ah)? EFM bonds multiple copper wires at layer 1 and effectivitly supplies a single Ethernet circuit. Here in the UK, BT now offers about 25Mbps if there are sufficient spare copper pairs. It's ideal for remote locations and a bit cheaper than fibre (where fibre already exists within the premise.) Advantages include quicker lead time and avoidance of excess construction charges to dig up new trenches to lay fibre ducts. No digging can also avoid lengthy legal wayleave issues with landlords. Disadvantages include the limited throughput compared to fibre.

Failing that, some companies here offer manged bonded DSL solutions. Some have wholesale connectivity with different carriers too, so they can offer some diversity in terms of DSL infrastructure. Basically, they install a device on the customer premise that takes the data stream and breaks it down across all the DSL lines. Each DSL circuit is terminated within the provider's own data centre rack space. Here, the process is reversed and the data is reformed back into a single stream. They then act as a small ISP with transit and peering links to the Internet at large. I think some of the kit is intelligent enough to balance traffic across the links depending upon load etc. However, you might run into latency issues if running VoIP or any real-time applications. I've not used such a service myself, but might be worth a look or canvassing opinion via the forum.

Or there's the load balancing you mentioned. This should work fine with VoIP. Do they have a choice of ISP? I've seen an ISP run BGP on DSL circuits but it's only been as part of a much wider solution - i.e. not just a couple of DSL lines. There are other methods though, but it would need to be a product already on offer. An ISP is never going to bend over backwards to design a new solution for the profit in just two DSL lines.

Here in the UK is a product called SDSL for synchonous upstream and downstream. It's mostly used by businesses. Obviously, the downsteam throughput is much less than ADSL.

[lcaruso]

Thanks much for your post--some good ideas worth exploring further with this ISP. I think they said 802.3ah is coming, so maybe I can work that angle.