03-17-2026 09:58 AM
I need design advise to understand better and make decision:
- Elaborate/correct and answer please: when using 3-Tier LAN topology design basically we aggregate all L3 SVIs in Distribution switch offloading the load from core. this is in large scale. but if its mid-size network we go with collapsed core. now in 3-tier design does distribution always L3? or it can be L2 and SVIs terminate on core? i think it does not make sense to have L2 dist in 3-Tier design
- if I have a LAN with lets say 30X 9200 access switch, and C9500-24Y4C/C9300X-24HX option for core. also have 1-2 ESXI hosting 5-10 VM servers. what would be the recommended design? collapsed core or 3-tier ? how? Basically if we have local servers then how it fits into any of these design solutions
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03-17-2026 01:56 PM
I believe the classical 3 tier design model goes back to routers and hubs.
The edge layer provided edge ports.
The core layer was the bit pusher for the whole LAN. To maximize bit pushing, it used minimal logic, so much so, it might be a L2 core (uncommon, I believe, and only made sense with a switch) or only supporting routing.
The distribution layer, besides being the bandwidth fanout between core and edge neighbors, was the layer that supported routing and policy stuff.
The distribution layer was very incremental scalable.
The above was truly needed on equipment that rarely supported wire-rate on all devices ports.
However, device capacity has dramatically increased over the decades since the 3 tier network was a requirement for larger LAN network. I believe all the 9Ks you've mentioned are wire-speed capable while applying common network policies. With L3 switches, you even had the option for routing on the edge.
From the scale of the network you've described, performance wise, 2 tiers should be fine.
03-17-2026 10:13 AM
It all boils down to two things:
First and more important, how much money is available.
Many places should be using Tier-3 but, due budged constraint, use collapsed core to save money.
Second, how many servers do you have.
If you speak only technically, 3-Tier or collapsed is determined by the size of the network. The size of network is determined by how many end points you need to connect and how starving they are for bandwidth.
Meaning, you start creating your design by the end points, not by the Core.
03-17-2026 12:06 PM
Thanks!
let me ask you this. from network size perspective, what size would be considered to have 3-tier ? i understand multiple factor needs to be considered.
i guess my main questions remain unanswered:
- do we have a 3-tier design with L2 distribution? if yes please explain how. it does not make sense to me
- if we have local 5-10 VM servers, does that dictates to have 3-tier so less load on the core?
03-17-2026 01:46 PM
- do we have a 3-tier design with L2 distribution? if yes please explain how. it does not make sense to me
L2 distribution does not make sense. L2 is access. Ditribution is layer 3
- if we have local 5-10 VM servers, does that dictates to have 3-tier so less load on the core?
this is a very small environment. Depending on the server size, you can put 10 VM in one server only.
The size of a Tier-3 site could be based on the folllowing.
You have so many end points that you need a lot of access switches or serverfarm switches.
With so many access switches you can not connect to the core (collapsed core) as the core will not have enough ports.
then you need a distribution switch to receive all the access switches. Thus, you need to create Tier-3 topology.
03-17-2026 01:40 PM - edited 03-17-2026 01:42 PM
2- or 3-tier network simply boils down to budget.
If there is budget, a 3-tier network is ideal.
Nowadays, we are deploying a collapsed 1-tier network to small sites and 2-tier network in bigger sites.
It is now possible to deploy 1- or 2-tier network particularly when 10- and 25 Gps SM optics (3rd party, of course) are now very affordable.
On top of affordable optics, stacking features enables the deployment of collapsed 1- or 2-tier network easier. In one tier, I can have my site's core-, distro-, and access layer switching in one logical stack.
03-17-2026 05:56 PM
Nowadays, we are deploying a collapsed 1-tier network to small sites
"1-tier", laugh, love it! I'll tell about one of my 1-tier in moment.
Let's suppose, current technology only supports 8 port switches, and you need to provide 48 ports, what do you do?
You might daisy chain 8 of these switches. Will it work? Yep. Is it a great performing design? Nope.
How else might you connect them? You, might connect them, helter skelter, but you might connect them in a hierarchy, but for just 48 ports, you might connect them in a star topology.
Hmm, but might a star topology also be considered a 2 tier?
Should we use a 3 tier topology, because LAN networks ought to be such?
While pondering all the questions, what if, technology supports 48 port switches? Do we use just one of them, or a 3 tier topology?
Hopefully, you'll see the classic 3 tier is a fantastic way to scale up when 1 tier or 2 tier cannot meet the requirements, otherwise, should you always use 3 tiers?
Now back to 1 tier designs, when the 6500 sup2T was released, in conjunction with the 6513E chassis, you had 11 line card slots, supporting 80 Gbps each, supporting cards with 48 gig ports or 8 or 16 10g ports, also with dual power supplies and dual sups. Such is my idea of a small 1 tier design. @Leo Laohoo what's your small?
BTW, my intention is not denigrate the classic 3 tier design model, but rather to not allow it to automatically exclude other design topologies from consideration.
Or to put it another way, it's like the story of a parent visiting a grown child, who was roasting a turkey, but cut it in half before placing in oven.
Parent asked grown child why they cut turkey in half. They replied, but I learned that from you; that's what you always did! Parent said, oh, that was because it was a small oven.
03-17-2026 06:54 PM
@Joseph W. Doherty wrote:
@Leo Laohoo what's your small?
If all the cable plant of the site can be squeezed into one 45-RU rack, it will be a 1-tier deployment: The WAN link will terminate to a stacked switch, all the downstream clients (PC and printers), phones, APs, BMS, etc. connected to the rest of the stack.
03-18-2026 03:06 AM
If all the cable plant of the site can be squeezed into one 45-RU rack, it will be a 1-tier deployment
Yep, cabling can be a beast.
We had a call center using 6513s with 11 96 port line cards.
Recall (?) there were two connected to another, smaller, 6500, that also connected to our internal regional metro network. So, for the site/building, 2 tier.
Of course, within a single rack, you could have multi tier topology, and might have a single tier extending across racks, aisles, floors, buildings and even sites.
03-19-2026 03:25 PM
Thanks for your time!! and great explanation!!!! you are a good story teller, a witty one haha. I understand the design aspect of it much better now
03-17-2026 01:56 PM
I believe the classical 3 tier design model goes back to routers and hubs.
The edge layer provided edge ports.
The core layer was the bit pusher for the whole LAN. To maximize bit pushing, it used minimal logic, so much so, it might be a L2 core (uncommon, I believe, and only made sense with a switch) or only supporting routing.
The distribution layer, besides being the bandwidth fanout between core and edge neighbors, was the layer that supported routing and policy stuff.
The distribution layer was very incremental scalable.
The above was truly needed on equipment that rarely supported wire-rate on all devices ports.
However, device capacity has dramatically increased over the decades since the 3 tier network was a requirement for larger LAN network. I believe all the 9Ks you've mentioned are wire-speed capable while applying common network policies. With L3 switches, you even had the option for routing on the edge.
From the scale of the network you've described, performance wise, 2 tiers should be fine.
03-19-2026 03:47 PM
Appreciated. With all these comments, apparently there is no straight answer. I am accepting your comments as my case solution. thnx
03-18-2026 05:49 AM
@Najib Akbari more specific answers to your questions, and more specific recommendations.
when using 3-Tier LAN topology design basically we aggregate all L3 SVIs in Distribution switch offloading the load from core.
Idealy, core just moves bits, usually no logical processing beyond what's needed to just/only forward frames and/or packets.
So, correct, we wouldn't normally find SVIs in core, but if edge is L3, distro wouldn't have SVIs either.
When distro has SVIs, as edge gateways, ideally L3 distro shouldn't be spanning VLANs across edge devices. (Not possible when distro was routers. Possible with L3 switches, but poor practice in modern networks.)
Consider if an edge device had multiple VLANs, they would be trunked up to distro. If distro was a router, router would have routed subinterfaces. No spanning of edge VLANs across edge devices connected to distro router.
Although L3 switches support routed interfaces, they don't support routed subinterfaces. On them, for a trunk, you would need to use SVIs, but its usage should be like a subinterface.
now in 3-tier design does distribution always L3?
Usually, although not uncommon to see a L3 distro switch spaning L2 between L2 edge devices (again, poor practice).
Understand you can have 2 or 3 layer L2 topologies, physically, but 2-tier or 3-tier designs are logical role usage designs.
or it can be L2 and SVIs terminate on core?
Gateway SVIs would not be found on a pure core device, but may be found on a collapsed core device, as that device is supporting two distinct roles.
i think it does not make sense to have L2 dist in 3-Tier design
Correct!
Suggested design. . .
For a network as small as yours, and using 9K switches, physically, you might go with two layers, i.e. a star topology.
For redundancy, the hub device might be a dual stack, that all the other switches connect to using a dual Etherchannel link, with a link to each hub switch. The other switches might also be stacked, but if stacked, on their end, the Etherchannel links should not be on the same stack member.
The fun begins with logically what that physical topology is. You might consider it a collapsed core, or all switches are peers in a star topology.
For example, if you never place hosts on your hub, nor ever further interconnect switches, you do have a logical edge and collapsed core design, but it you do place hosts on the hub switch (like your servers), or create additional switch interconnections, you've created a peer network possibly using a partial mesh physical topology.
What's best? Well, that's an "it depends" answer.
Personally, I would lean towards the physical star topology, with described redundancy, placing some (all?) server hosts on the hub.
Since the server hosts are likely critical to the business, plan for them to have a backup port, that you can manually, and quickly, reconnect them to, or Etherchannel them too.
Anyway, my earlier replies was to attempt to break the mindset of 3-tier, 3-tier, 3-tier, 3-tier . . .
3-tier is a good solid approach, and even one might say you won't go "wrong" using it, but it not always the best or most sensible design.
Lastly, actual switch model selection can be important. Likely, all 9Ks are wire-speed, and some models (?) offer rather high stacking bandwidths. But, there's much more to switch architectures than bandwidth this or bandwidth that can very much impact performance.
03-19-2026 04:23 PM
Thank you! I gained more knowledge.
let me give you an example of one of my design/setup at a branch and seek your input:
a while ago we needed to do a switch refresh on a site ( EOL sw of course hahah). based on the endpoint density, i chose 2XC9300X-24HX as L3 core ( stacked then as one logical sw of course ). and 8X C9200-48 as L2 access switches and divided them into two stack ( 4X switch per stack ) and each stack with 4X Physical uplink to the core ( each AS stack has two 2 port NM - and of course as you described in your comment i also cross connect them to the core means lets say AS STK01 SW 1 port one to core sw 1 port one and AS STK01 SW 1 port two to core sw 2 port 1 etc ...).
now being said that and considering multiple VLANs exists on both AS stacks ( like vlan 99 spann on both stack) and vlan traffic sometimes have to spann/traverse through core toward other stack and reading your comments to avoid vlan spann - it seems i did a bad design and would be better if i had all 8X C9200 in one single logical stack?
the reason i divided into two physical stack was narrowing down the issue on smaller area when doing troubleshooting, e.g if loop happens or whatever then we will not loose the whole floor ... with that mind set i chose to divide it into two physical stack ...
03-19-2026 06:15 PM - edited 03-20-2026 02:52 AM
What you did wasn't so much a bad design, because you considered real-world things like troubleshooting, minimizing equipment failure impact, etc.
One possible issue with spanning VLANs across devices, you can get into some interesting "corner cases", like unicast flooding.
But generally, avoiding spanning VLANs across devices, is much the same thinking as possibly your primary reason for using two stacks of 4, "Don’t put all your eggs in one basket ".
Before L3 switches, when L2 switching was much, much faster than L3 routing, we had the saying "switch when you can, route when you must". I.e. we wanted to avoid L3, if possible. But with L3 switches, where usually L3 routing is just as fast as L2 switching, we can avoid many potential L2 issues by using L3.
So, again, your reasons for splitting the 8 edge devices across two stacks, is reasonable. Often people can be very nervous with large member stacks, often citing slow CLI response, or some occasionally will say the larger member stacks just appear to have more issues.
Even assuming all those potential issues are true, for just two stacks, that are L3 capable, what's the real benefit of using the dual 9300X between just two stacks? Any data that goes between them flows up and down their links to the 9300X, but if, instead, they just link to each other, the two stacks, isn't that pretty much the same?
If you had more than 2 stacks, then a core/hub would make much more sense, but again, for just two stacks, is the 9300X really a good benefit? (Besides avoiding the purchase of pair of 9300Xs, you would cut in half the number of 10g transceivers.)
If the above risk of large member stacks is over stated, and we run just one stack of 8 members, besides, possibly more so, no benefit to having the 9300X, we eliminate most of the NM transceivers, the NMs themselves, and increase the bandwidth between the 2 sets of 4 members, because now all 8 share the same StackWise 160 gig ring.
So possibly, you might have been fine using a 1-tier design, i.e. just a single stack of 8 9200s.
Should you have done that? I cannot say. I don't have all the information you did/do, and even if I did, I might do it differently, because I weigh the same facts perhaps differently. It's not always a choice of right or wrong, good or bad, but sometimes of taste. Perhaps you like vanilla ice cream and I like a different flavor; is flavor choice right/wrong, good/bad? However, the temperature to store ice cream at, that's not so much a matter of taste, laugh, unless your "taste" likes brick hard ice cream or liquid ice cream.
Laugh, to your earlier comment, there's no straight answer, there is, it's "it depends".
For example, two different branch sites requiring the same number of like edge ports, but what those ports are being used for, can very much impact how much effort/expense is committed to trying to avoid some network issue.
So to recap, the only "bad" thing you might have done, or the most questionable, was having the same VLANs across both switches. Yea, totally understand, not wanting one stack taking down the whole network (although if the dual 9300X stack is the one that hiccups, is that really much better?), but a multi floor single VLAN network could be split into two single floor VLANs, and those replacement VLANs, one per switch. (Yea, I also appreciate the latter is a more work, and don't know how tight you're on address space, nor ratio of DHCP hosts to static IPed hosts, etc. Just, there's often many alternatives.)
(BTW, something I like to do, on chassis line cards or stacks, allocate ports, for the same VLAN, vertically so that if one line card, or one stack member fails, rather than possibly taking out a whole VLAN, it takes out a fraction of multiple VLANs. Whether that alone is a plus or a minus, is hard to say. However, if you can have one more stack member, than you actually need, if need be, you can rapidly re-patch one member's ports to the hot spare. But even without a dedicated spare member, you might re-patch to another member whose port is inactive. The advantage of the vertical allocations, port # is the same VLAN on all switches; you don't need to look at configs. [Logically you can do the same with line cards, but often you don't have as many, and usually you can easily pop them in and out while chassis is running. Replacing a switch member is a bit more involved, and that's does seem to be the kind of thing that can cause a whole stack issue.])
03-23-2026 09:53 AM
Hi Again - I do appreciate your time and being patiently thoughtfulness.
you made me thinking, which is good. i think the reason i chose to have a separate core is to have dedicated redundant hardware as L3 core to serve access swithces as well as have link to Internet firewall and another link to SD-WAN Vello connecting the site to other sites. i did not think too deep, not easy to say but saying kind of followed the layered design as a must.
mmm, thinking, correct me:
- perhaps with L2 and L3 performance being so closed, one single 8X sw could handle it all! of course as you said as well its the matter of saving HW/Money and I can add simplicity as well otherwise technically nothing wrong with the current design
- Whats the deal with not spanning same vlan across L2 HW?! its even possible unless building wise and switch wise we have the feasibility of it. e.g management vlan and voice vlan both of them needed everywhere ......
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