10-27-2022 04:05 AM
Hi,
I have a not saying that the 'giants' error count in the show interfaces command is the number of frames larger than the maximum frame size of 1518 bytes. Is that the same as the MTU (Maximum Transmission Unit)? As in, if i specify a MTU of 4000 bytes does that mean a frame has to be larger than 4000 bytes for the error count to change?
If not, what is the difference?
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10-28-2022 07:28 AM
giants: Giants are Ethernet frames that exceed the IEEE 802.3 frame size (1518 bytes, no Jumbo frames) and have a incorrect FCS (Frame Check Sequence).
I MAKE SMALL LAB, make you get what different
MTU you config under the interface is Ethernet Frame size and you see it alot in L2 SW
IP MTU is the data before we encap with L2 header and tail (FCS)
if the both side have different MTU (frame size) then giant error increament.
since here the MTU is mismatch the giant error count increase.
10-28-2022 10:59 AM - edited 10-28-2022 11:02 AM
"Difference between maximum frame size and MTU"
Possibly worth a read, Wiki's MTU.
In short, the Wiki article maps MTU to L3, so for standard sized Ethernet, MTU is 1500. L2 frame size, to hold a L3 packet of 1500, needs a frame size of, at least, 1518 (as you too noted). BTW, frame overhead can be even larger with VLAN tags and or MPLS tags, yet MTU for those would still be 1500. (This is also addressed by @MHM Cisco World's reference.)
Usually, with most media, at the time interfaces are specified, maximum frame size is "cast in stone". Ethernet, though, as it continued to "evolve", with changes like VLAN tags and/or MPLS tags required interface hardware to handle larger frames. Further Ethernet has "evolved" with non-standard Jumbo frame size support.
Once you get into Ethernet frames larger 1518, you're into giant frames, which, being larger than the standard, are considered defective, and dropped. Yet, with things like VLAN tags, etc., those frames might be acceptable to a Cisco interface, as Cisco has defined baby giants, i.e. frames 1519..1600 bytes. I.e. these frames might not be dropped; additional device configuration might be needed to allow.
In the world of jumbo Ethernet, many giant frame might be acceptable; again additional device configuration might be needed to allow.
In this (old) reference, Troubleshooting Baby Giant/Jumbo Frames in Catalyst 4000/4500 with Supervisor III/IV, you might further understand some of the evolution of Ethernet.
In regard to your questions:
Are max frame size and MTU the same, no, as (hopefully) explained above.
"As in, if i specify a MTU of 4000 bytes does that mean a frame has to be larger than 4000 bytes for the error count to change?"
Maybe. Once you get into jumbo size, as they are non-standard, there's no expected/guaranteed behavior.
For example, I've seen some devices that will allow you to set a jumbo size to whatever size you want, up to the maximum jumbo size the device supports. On other devices, enabling jumbo size requires setting it to its maximum.
Without knowing the particular hardware and IOS running (and without direct experience) I could not predict how error counts may, or may not change, as you change MTU. Another reason I provided the (old) reference I did, is to show, even back in 2005, dependencies on actual hardware being used and IOS version being used.
Personally, I would expect as you increase MTU, giant frames covered by the increased size would no longer be considered giants.
10-27-2022 05:28 AM
https://ccie.nyquist.eu/layer-2-technologies/layer-2-wan-protocols/bridging/mtu-101
check this link, there are different between IP MTU and MTU
IP MTU for L3 MTU size
MTU is for L2 frame size
10-28-2022 05:17 AM
Hi,
I'm not sure i understand your very short explanation of the subject. I tried looking at your link, but did not find an answer to my question
What i want to know is whether there is a difference in the 'maximum frame size' in the 'giants' error count and the MTU.
10-28-2022 07:28 AM
giants: Giants are Ethernet frames that exceed the IEEE 802.3 frame size (1518 bytes, no Jumbo frames) and have a incorrect FCS (Frame Check Sequence).
I MAKE SMALL LAB, make you get what different
MTU you config under the interface is Ethernet Frame size and you see it alot in L2 SW
IP MTU is the data before we encap with L2 header and tail (FCS)
if the both side have different MTU (frame size) then giant error increament.
since here the MTU is mismatch the giant error count increase.
10-29-2022 01:38 AM
nice one
10-28-2022 10:59 AM - edited 10-28-2022 11:02 AM
"Difference between maximum frame size and MTU"
Possibly worth a read, Wiki's MTU.
In short, the Wiki article maps MTU to L3, so for standard sized Ethernet, MTU is 1500. L2 frame size, to hold a L3 packet of 1500, needs a frame size of, at least, 1518 (as you too noted). BTW, frame overhead can be even larger with VLAN tags and or MPLS tags, yet MTU for those would still be 1500. (This is also addressed by @MHM Cisco World's reference.)
Usually, with most media, at the time interfaces are specified, maximum frame size is "cast in stone". Ethernet, though, as it continued to "evolve", with changes like VLAN tags and/or MPLS tags required interface hardware to handle larger frames. Further Ethernet has "evolved" with non-standard Jumbo frame size support.
Once you get into Ethernet frames larger 1518, you're into giant frames, which, being larger than the standard, are considered defective, and dropped. Yet, with things like VLAN tags, etc., those frames might be acceptable to a Cisco interface, as Cisco has defined baby giants, i.e. frames 1519..1600 bytes. I.e. these frames might not be dropped; additional device configuration might be needed to allow.
In the world of jumbo Ethernet, many giant frame might be acceptable; again additional device configuration might be needed to allow.
In this (old) reference, Troubleshooting Baby Giant/Jumbo Frames in Catalyst 4000/4500 with Supervisor III/IV, you might further understand some of the evolution of Ethernet.
In regard to your questions:
Are max frame size and MTU the same, no, as (hopefully) explained above.
"As in, if i specify a MTU of 4000 bytes does that mean a frame has to be larger than 4000 bytes for the error count to change?"
Maybe. Once you get into jumbo size, as they are non-standard, there's no expected/guaranteed behavior.
For example, I've seen some devices that will allow you to set a jumbo size to whatever size you want, up to the maximum jumbo size the device supports. On other devices, enabling jumbo size requires setting it to its maximum.
Without knowing the particular hardware and IOS running (and without direct experience) I could not predict how error counts may, or may not change, as you change MTU. Another reason I provided the (old) reference I did, is to show, even back in 2005, dependencies on actual hardware being used and IOS version being used.
Personally, I would expect as you increase MTU, giant frames covered by the increased size would no longer be considered giants.
10-29-2022 02:25 AM
Thank you both
10-29-2022 02:26 AM - edited 10-29-2022 02:27 AM
you are so so welcome
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