AIR-ANT1728 Antenna

[Francis Jr Asis]

Anybody from you guys can help me. What is the maximum distance or safe distance this antenna can cover. I am using Aironet2602E access point. Because i couldnt understand the radiation pattern. There is 5 circle in the Radiation pattern but i dont know how to convert this is distance. Its only showing the DB.

[paolo bevilacqua]

Wrong forum, post in Wireless. You can move your post using the acions panel on the right.

[Leo Laohoo · Accepted solution]

AIR-ANT1728 on a 2602E????  Seriously? 

You are about to get into serious strife with this combo ... Let me explain:

1.  If you put the antenna standing on it's tip, you get a 360-degree coverage.

2.  You put the antenna on it's side, this is where you see the pattern of a three-leaf clover.  The spaces between are called "lobes" or in a different word, "shadows".  You won't get good signals when you are standing under the shadows.

3.  Distance?  Depends on the combination of #1 and #2.  And this is where you'll get a fun time getting into trouble.  Let's say you want to MEASURE the maximum theoretical distance.  If you are in a large open field and with no wireless interferrence around, the antenna is installed around 2-3 metres from the ground, pointing downwards, and you are not standing under the "shadows", you'll probably get 50-60 metre coverage.

Now, let's say you have a wireless device at that distance and you're trying to send and receive data, you won't get that far.  The antenna is a mid-gain antenna strength, -5.2 dBI but your wireless clients will NOT have their on-board antenna with this much power.  So what's going to happen is that your clients (out in the field) can "see" or "hear" the wireless signal but the AP will not be able to see any response from the wireless clients because the signals coming back are too faint.

If you insist of using this single-band antenna on a dual band AP, like the 1600E, 2600E, 3500E, and 3600E, I recommend you disable the 802.11a/n radio.

IMPORTANT:  Exactly WHAT are you trying to achieve?

[Francis Jr Asis]

Thank leolaohoo. Its a great information for me. THis is my first time to install AP in warehouse. If you dont mind will you help me to design the wireless position. I am going to install wireless access point in the ceiling  inside the warehouse which i heard a lot of comment that because of metal stub i will get a lot of destructive interference. I have  question also. If i will use the aironet 2602e, can i use only one ant1728 antenna per aironet 2602? because i notice it come with 4 connection for antenna.

[Leo Laohoo · Accepted solution]

Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to rate our posts.

The new generation of APs are 1602, 2602 and 3602.  All of these have dual radios.  So whether you like it or not, you can't get a single-radio AP.

Almost everyone will tell you that you need to get a comprehensive wireless site survey done.  Anything can go wrong when you do a wireless implementation in a warehouse, regardless of what model of AP you are going to get.  It gets even worst when your hand-held scanner won't work as advertised even though their sales brochure say so.

Look at this document.  Take note of Tables 5, 6 & 7.  These are the antennas designed to work with the APs mentioned above.  Unlike the 1728, you don't need to buy four per AP.  Instead, you just buy one and you connect the four RP-TNC pig-tails to each antenna socket.

The most important questions are:  HOW MANY APs, HOW HIGH, WHERE do you install the APs in the warehouse.  These simple (but difficult) questions can be answered with a wireless site survey.

May I also suggest that, before you wait for the final result of the wireless site survey, you test the compatibility of the wireless AP of your choice and the hand-held devices?  You may also need to consider purchasing a wireless LAN controller (WLC).  My recommendation is the 5508.  The choice for the 2602E for the warehouse floor is a good choice as it's not too expensive.  If you plan to put APs in the office, choose the APs with built-in antennas like the 2602i or the 3602i.

[Francis Jr Asis]

           

My problem is the client need us to install 2600 series(Inside the warehouse) together with AIR-ANT1728 antenna

and 1600 seies (In the Office). They already have the wireless LAN controller. Is there AP 2600 series with only one radio? I will attach a drawing. I made the location of the AP. It would be better if i could send the autocad drawing.

The the height = 10 m

distance per AP = 20 m

[Leo Laohoo]

Is there AP 2600 series with only one radio?

There is no such thing as a single-radio 2nd Generation AP which the 1602, 2602 and 3602 belong to.  The 3500 has single radio available.  You may want to offer that to the client.  But, again, still doesn't make any sense because this means that you need to buy three of the antennas PER a single AP unit.

My recommendation is put a spreadsheet.  Put down the cost of the 2602E plus the integrated antenna.  And then below that, put the cost of the 3501E (802.11b/g only) and three pieces of the ANT1728.  Let the client see and choose which proposition they want.  If they still want the 2602E plus the ANT1728, put it down but you need four antennas per a single 2602E.  It sure does NOT make any sense.

Again, the gain of the antenna is too strong to hear back the return signal from the clients.

I can't comment on the 1600 because I for one refuse to deploy this particular model.  I'm not saying that it's a bad model, I just don't want it.  If your client wants cost, try the AP700.

Nuts.  I'm looking at the layout of the warehouse.  How high are these shelves?  You may want to consider install the AP hanging from the ceiling and approximately halfway down the height of each row of racks.  Are there any pallette lifter machines?  If there are, then you may now consider "wall-mounting" the APs from the shelves.

Again, too early to tell.  A simple wireless site survey can answer alot of questions.  Heck, at that height, I WOULD NO LONGER recommend the ANT1728 because of the horizontal footprint.  You're going to hit alot of shadows.  Judging from the height of the shelves, I am thinking about 2602I instead.

EDIT:  Another thing, in a warehouse, someone needs to understand the concept of co-channel interferrence and how it can potentially create havoc.  This is evident in an environment when the hand-held clients only support 802.11 b/g. 

[Francis Jr Asis]

still doesn't make any sense because this means that you need to buy three of the antennas PER a single AP unit.

Why should i do just to use the 2602E AP. Can i disable the 5GHz radio in the AP because the ANT1728 work in 2.4 GHz. I bit confuse about 3 antenna per AP can i use only one antenna to work in this AP?it is possible just to comply? My spacing of AP is enough to cover the area?

[Leo Laohoo]

Can i disable the 5GHz radio in the AP because the ANT1728 work in 2.4 GHz.

Yes you can.  I've mentioned this in my first post.

 I bit confuse about 3 antenna per AP can i use only one antenna to work in this AP?it is possible just to comply?

The days of an AP with one antenna per radio is long gone.  2602E/3602E have four antenna ports because of MIMO.  Two antennas are receiving and two antennas are transmitting.

This is why I''ve been saying all along that using ANT1728 on APs like 1602E, 2602E, 3500E, 3602E doesn't make any sense.  I'm not saying it WON"T work.  I'm saying that it CAN and WILL WORK but you need to buy three or four antennas per AP.  The costs alone just simple don't add up.  Heck, factor in installation cost and it still doesn't add up.

My spacing of AP is enough to cover the area?

I can't determine the height and length of the shelves.  You also didn't mention how high (from the floor) are the APs will be installed.

Nuts.  I don't think the APs can cover if any one of them fails.  No redundancy.

[Francis Jr Asis]

Now i get your point. Why it doesn't make any sense using  2602 AP in ANT1728 antenna. As per in the table i can't use this antenna in this AP.

If i will use this antenna AIR-ANT2524DB-R= (Dual Band Dipole) in the same setup AP. The data below will be the safe side to cover the area.

The height of the shelves = 8 meter

The height of the AP = 10 meter

The spacing between them AP = 20 meter

The horizontal spacing line of  multiple AP = 5 meter

[Leo Laohoo · Accepted solution]

As per in the table i can't use this antenna in this AP.

Ummmm ... You technically can.  You just ensure you disable the 802.11 a/n radio.

If i will use this antenna AIR-ANT2524DB-R= (Dual Band Dipole) in the same setup AP.

Ummmm ... still doesn't make any sense.  The gain of these type of antennas are the same as the gain of the 2602 with internal antennas.  You may as well use 2602i and install the AP against the shelves at around 5 metres from the ground.

Your AP spacing don't have any factor in case an AP in the middle fails.

I will have to reiterate the operational need and significant of a wireless site survey to be conducted.  The simplest way would be to put two APs in a single aisle and measure the signal with a laptop.  This method is not a sure-fire method, but if your client is cheap then, I guess, this will do (gulp!).

George, Scott, Steve, Surendra, you gents have any opinion?

[Francis Jr Asis]

Sir Leo i really appreciate your time in helping me to understand in wireless deployment in warehouse. Its a big information for me. Now my last choice is to use this antenna AIR-ANT2544V4M-R= (Dual-Band Omnidirectional Antenna).

In this antenna what is the safe distance per AP? Will still safe to install in the height of 10 meter from the floor? Because we are not allowed to install the AP  against the shelves specially in 5 meter height. Our only choice is 9-10 meter ceiling mount.

[Leo Laohoo · Accepted solution]

In this antenna what is the safe distance per AP?

If you allow all data rates, I would say yoiu can get a distance of 20-25 metres (802.11 b/g)

Install the APs 9 metres from the floor. 

Make sure the antennas are pointing towards the floor.

Along each aisle, I'd put an AP spaced every 20-25 metres.  This caters for redundancy, in case one of your AP fails, the other AP can increase power.

And, for goodness sake, organize for a wireless site survey!

NOTE:  "Sir" Leo?  Last I checked, I haven't been knighted yet.  I got "clocked", but that's another story.  LOL

[Francis Jr Asis]

NOTE:  "Sir" Leo?  Last I checked, I haven't been knighted yet.  I got "clocked", but that's another story.  LOL

that for compliment for someone like you.LOL

Thank you very much

[lcd_shouldit]

Hi LEO, Would you please tell me is there some advantage for warehouse enviroment with 3602e compare with 3602i .

Thank you !