01-10-2005 07:25 AM - edited 03-02-2019 08:58 PM
In regards to Eigrp the doucumentation indicates that a router will make a route a feasible successor and add it to its topology table if the route's reported distance to a specific network is less than the feasible distance of the current router.
My question is :
What happens if the reported distance is exactly the SAME as the feasible distance, will the route be added to the topology table or discarded?
01-10-2005 08:15 AM
--- I changed my mind about this posting. Sorry! I will be interested to see the correct answer. ;-) ---
01-10-2005 09:23 AM
If the RD == FD, then the route will be not be considered a feasible successor. So, it won't be installed in the routing table, no matter what the variance is, and if the best path is lost, the route will go active. We've discussed adding some other capabilities here, and make it so an RD == FD path can be used as an alternate path, or through variance, but we've not had a lot of customer drive for that sort of thing.
:-)
Russ
01-10-2005 11:28 AM
Russ,
That's an interesting thing you said there about variance. So the routing table sometimes doesn't get some routes even when it seems they should fit in the variance rules. That is, "I will never in a direction drive away from my destination, even if the route would bypass the major traffic." All in the name of loop avoidance.
Thanks for that insight.
Kevin Dorrell
Luxembourg
01-10-2005 01:22 PM
Russ,
Thanks for the info.
I imagine the chances of RD being exactly equal to FD aren't that great
01-10-2005 05:09 PM
I would have thought that there were some fairly common examples. Imagine a router at remote site A with two identical T1 lines going to two different WAN-aggregation routers at central site B. The two routers at site B are connected to a common Ethernet (maybe even doing HSRP). Each B-site router has the same FD to the network behind A. I think that fulfils the condition, doesn't it?
I wonder what the danger would be in making each B-site router the FS for the other?
Kevin Dorrell
Luxembourg
01-10-2005 07:06 PM
Russ and Kevin,
I am looking for more insight here - does this this mean that deliberately setting up another path with RD = FD, is an advisable/legitimate method (even though there is no corporate drive for this, Russ) of redundancy?
What would be the impact of this and how many paths could you set up?
Cheers,
Josef.
01-11-2005 12:40 AM
From what Russ says, if RD=FD, the neighbor does not get put into the EIGRP topology and is not a feasible successor. So, in the topology I described, you would have redundancy OK, but each time the redundancy tripped in, the routers would have to run the DUAL algorithm. Isn't that right Russ?
Kevin Dorrell
Luxembourg
01-11-2005 05:37 AM
Okay, I'll try to hit all the questions.... :-) Take a look at temp.gif, attached. Now, if the A to B and A to C links are equal cost, no matter what their cost is:
-- B will mark A as the successor, and will not mark C as a feasible successor, because the RD == FD.
-- C will mark A as the successor, and will not mark B as an FS, because the RD == FD.
The problem is you can't prove, mathematically, that the path is loop free unless the RD < FD, really. Suppose B and C could point at each other as feasible successors. What happens if 10.1.1.0/24 itself fails? B will immediately flip over to using C as its path, and C will immediately flip over to using B as its path--a loop.
The loop would actually be permanent. B would send an update out towards A saying it has a new path through C, but not towards C, since C is its current path to 10.1.1.0/24 (split horizon rule, never send an update out the path you're using). C would do the same thing, and thus, the loop would sit there until the link between B and C fails because of some high volume traffic flow. :-)
There are a couple of ways around this. For instance, We could use poison reverse instead of split horizon, I think.... We could make it so when you see an RD == FD, you will send out a poison reverse when you flip to that route, so if it's a loop, it's killed pretty fast. But, you'll still have a transient loop. It might also be possible to do some sort of exploritory query in this case, but it's hard to figure out exactly how such a beast would work. So, we've explored some ideas in this space, but we don't have a lot of demand to fix this sort of thing.
What happens today is if the A->B links fails, for instance, B will go active, send a query to C, and C is going to answer with an ack that its path still good. You won't get subsecond convergence in this case (unless your routers are really fast, lightly loaded, and the link between then is really fast/lightly loaded as well), but you shouldn't ever encounter really long convergence, either, because the query range is one hop.
It 10.1.1.0/24 itself fails, B and C should query each other, and work it out in short order. The actual chain of events is going to depend on the timing of things, most likely one of the two is going to get the query and process it before the other (from A), since packets are serialized, etc....
For the second question--if the route isn't an FS, we won't ever install it in the routing table, no matter what the variance is. DUAL uses a "negative test," really. We can prove a route isn't a loop, but we can't prove it is a loop. So, we're conservative, and if we can't prove it isn't a loop, we assume it is a loop. Since we can't know any route with RD >= FD isn't a loop, we just won't use it....
:-)
Russ
01-11-2005 05:49 AM
Thanks Russ, I enjoyed reading your explanation. I was particularly struck by ... you can't prove, mathematically, that the path is loop free unless the RD < FD ... , which I guess is a characteristic of all DV protocols, by definition.
EIGRP is really DV with most of the wrinkles ironed out, and I have never really understood the exam questions that insist it is "hybrid". In fact, the term "hybrid" would be better applied to OSPF (LS intra-area, DV inter-area) ... but let's not go too far down that path.
Kevin Dorrell
Luxembourg
01-11-2005 06:06 AM
> I was particularly struck by ... you can't prove,
> mathematically, that the path is loop free unless
> the RD < FD ... , which I guess is a characteristic
> of all DV protocols, by definition.
Correct.... DUAL plays with the metrics so that you can prove some other path than the "best path" is loop free, which is the critical difference with RIP & IGRP. The big downside is the query mechanism, mostly required because of split horizon, mixed with this playing with the metrics....
As for your contention that OSPF and IS-IS are really more of hybrids than EIGRP, you're actually correct. :-) It's not quite distance-vector from ABR to ABR, since you're still flooding and simply placing the reachable destinations on the spf tree, but it's closer than many people realize.... In fact, Alex Zinin prsented a proposal to make OSPF fully link state, allowing OSPF, for instance, to have multiple levels.
What's always interesting to me is people who compare the protocols always compare the behaviour of OSPF and IS-IS within a single flooding domain to EIGRP, which isn't really apples to apples. It's more correct to consider inter and intra flooding domain against EIGRP, and you get different results in each case.
I'm hoping IPJ publishes an article called "Which Routing Protocol?" in the March issue. If not, look for a book called "Optimal Routing Design" to be out around Networkers, and the same text, pretty much, should be an appendix there. Or, if you're at networkers, I'm doing "Which Routing Protocol?" again this year....
:-)
Russ.W
01-11-2005 06:21 AM
Russ,
I shall look forward to it. I went to Networkers in Cannes this year, but I missed out on "Which Routing Protocol?" if it was there. I'll look out for it in NWOL.
Found it ... RST-2310 ... with you, James Ng and Harold Ritter.
Cheers.
Kevin Dorrell
Luxembourg
01-11-2005 05:39 PM
Thanks for the fascinating explanations Russ and Kevin.
My (first) Networkers is at the Gold Coast/Down Under this September - I can't wait!
Josef.
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