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Movi Provisioning and Zone Authentication Rules

William Bell
VIP Alumni
VIP Alumni

I have a couple of questions concerning Zone authentication policies and Movi provisioning/registration.

Environment:

Movi version: 4.2

VCS Expressway cluster (2 peers): X6.1

VCS Control cluster (2 peers): X6.1

Microsoft AD 2003

Authentication method (standard devices): Local Database

I have read through the VCS admin guide, the TMS provisioning guide (13.0), the VCS X6 release notes, the VCS X6.1 release notes, and the VCS Device Authentication Deployment Guide. I am trying to piece the story together for zone and authentication policies for Movi. Please bear with me here. In general I am trying to understand what zones/subzones play a role in the whole Movi provisioning and registration process.

Questions (assuming Local Database authentication and VCS-C is configured with TMS agent for provisioning):

1. When a Movi client is connecting to the VCS Control (Internal) my understanding is that the Default Zone is handling the initial Subcribe message and that it is recommended that the Default Zone's authentication policy is set to "Do not check credentials".  The idea is that the TMS agent will handle authentication at this point (for provisioning). Is this accurate?

2. Now, if I were to create a membership rule that places Movi clients into a specific local subzone, what would be the requirements for Authentication Policy for the local subzone? Should it still be "Do not check credentials"? Also, would the Default Zone still be used for the provisioning step? Meaning, that both the Default Zone and the Movi local subzone would need the same authentication policies.

3. When a Movi client is connecting to the VCS Expressway, how does the Expressway know to push the subscribe message to the VCS Control? I saw a mention of search rules in one of the guides, but it wasn't clear how the expressway knows to forward the provisioning request. What is used? Where is it set?

4. Again, with authentication my understanding from the VCS X6 release notes is that the Default Zone on the VCS Expressway is configured with "Do Not Check Credentials" and the Traversal Client Zone on the VCS Control is also configured for "Do Not Check Credentials". The idea (from my understanding) is to get the TMS agent on the VCS Control to do the authentication. Is this an accurate understanding?

5. Where does the Movi actually register in this case? The Expressway or the Control?

6. If #5 is the Expressway, what considerations are needed if the Expressway has a local subzone membership rule for Movi clients?  Does it need to have "Do not check credentials" as well?

As if i haven't asked enough, I am wondering what happens if one were to use the Active Directory Direct method for authenticating Movi clients. My read on this method is that the whole approach to authentication policies change. Instead of "Do not check credentials" you want to "Check credentials" (along with some other configs related to NTLM authentication). 

In the VCS Device Authentication Deployment Guide it says that the "Default Zone" should be configured to "Check credentials". What isn't clear is what does this mean when you have a VCS Expressway and a VCS Control. I am going to guess that it means the following:

(a) VCS Expressway

Default Zone:  "Do not check credentials"

(b) VCS Control

Traversal Client Zone: "Do not check credentials"

Default Zone: "Check credentials"

1. Is the above accurate? Or would I also need to check credentials on the Traversal client zone?

2. What if I were to have membership rules pointing the Movi client to a subzone?

Clearly I am missing a fundamental piece to the puzzle. Or, more accurately, I have pieced things together from different documents and my confidence that I have done so accurately is in question.

Thanks in advance,

Bill

HTH -Bill (b) http://ucguerrilla.com (t) @ucguerrilla

Please remember to rate helpful responses and identify

18 Replies 18

Marwan ALshawi
VIP Alumni
VIP Alumni

Hi

If u r using subzones then make the authentication on subzone level. ( I recommend u to test it which simple )

For movi and the express way

Normally this use sip and have you the option to let the devices to register to the express way and send calls to the vcsc ( u need a rule to send very thing to the vcsc sip domain pointing to vcsc )

Or

You make the vcs expressway works as sip proxy by not configuring a sip domain on it and use rule to send anything to ur sip domain to the vcsc this way even the vc endpoints will register in the vcsc and express way will be only a proxy

Wish this helps

Sent from Cisco Technical Support iPhone App

Marwan ALshawi
VIP Alumni
VIP Alumni

By the way someone put a msg from tac about zones authentication and presence issue in post in this telepresence section I think good to have look at it too !

Sent from Cisco Technical Support iPhone App

adimchev
Cisco Employee
Cisco Employee

Hi William,

I will try to answer on some of these questions

1. When a Movi client is connecting to the VCS Control (Internal) my understanding is that the Default Zone is handling the initial Subcribe message and that it is recommended that the Default Zone's authentication policy is set to "Do not check credentials". The idea is that the TMS agent will handle authentication at this point (for provisioning). Is this accurate?

That is correct , it basically means that device authentication is not enabled and provisioning request is challenged by the provisioning server.

If however the VCS is set to ‘Check credentials’ where the provisioning request is challenged by VCS – the usernames and passwords on VCS must be in sync with the provisioning usernames and passwords.

2. Now, if I were to create a membership rule that places Movi clients into a specific local subzone, what would be the requirements for Authentication Policy for the local subzone? Should it still be "Do not check credentials"? Also, would the Default Zone still be used for the provisioning step? Meaning, that both the Default Zone and the Movi local subzone would need the same authentication policies.

The authentication policy for the local subzone will be ignored and only the policy on that specific local subzone will be taken into account.

And no, it should not be "Do not check credentials" because what will happen is that Movi will sign in successfully but the presence status change will fail.

The reason behind this is that once authenticated with username and password against the provisioning db the Movi will receive all the provisioning configuration and will successfully register. However the publish message will get 403 because it has not been authenticated.

3. When a Movi client is connecting to the VCS Expressway, how does the Expressway know to push the subscribe message to the VCS Control? I saw a mention of search rules in one of the guides, but it wasn't clear how the expressway knows to forward the provisioning request. What is used? Where is it set?

It does know by the search rules, so if it has searched for  'AnyAlias in the  LocalZone' , hasn’t found it and then it will continue searching for the same alias towards traversal zone , usually the VCS with the provisioning db.

4. Again, with authentication my understanding from the VCS X6 release notes is that the Default Zone on the VCS Expressway is configured with "Do Not Check Credentials" and the Traversal Client Zone on the VCS Control is also configured for "Do Not Check Credentials". The idea (from my understanding) is to get the TMS agent on the VCS Control to do the authentication. Is this an accurate understanding?

Basically - yes, but even if you have had set on the Expressway's DZ "Check credentials" they should match the u/p from the provisioning database.

Another think you have to pay attention for is if you have set "Treat As Authenticated" on the DZ that will lead to registering with whatever password given that the Subzone is set to either "Do Not Check Credentials or Treat As Authenticated".

Here were are talking for non proxied registration. Same behavior is valid also for Control - if you set the DZ to "Treat As Authenticated" and the Subzone to DoNotCheck Credentials or "Do Not Check Credentials or Treat As Authenticated" this will result to registering with whatever password.

5. Where does the Movi actually register in this case? The Expressway or the Control?

If the sip domain you are registering to exist on the Expressway then the Movi will register to the Expressway , if it does not then the registration will be proxied to the Control and the Movi registration will be in the traversal subzone on the control

6. If #5 is the Expressway, what considerations are needed if the Expressway has a local subzone membership rule for Movi clients? Does it need to have "Do not check credentials" as well?

It depends if you are using authentication database for the Expressway (local or remote) which btw I would recommend.

As if i haven't asked enough, I am wondering what happens if one were to use the Active Directory Direct method for authenticating Movi clients. My read on this method is that the whole approach to authentication policies change. Instead of "Do not check credentials" you want to "Check credentials" (along with some other configs related to NTLM authentication).

That is correct , this will force the VCS to check credentials before forwarding to the provisioning server.

In the VCS Device Authentication Deployment Guide it says that the "Default Zone" should be configured to "Check credentials". What isn't clear is what does this mean when you have a VCS Expressway and a VCS Control. I am going to guess that it means the following:

(a) VCS Expressway

Default Zone: "Do not check credentials"

(b) VCS Control

Traversal Client Zone: "Do not check credentials"

Default Zone: "Check credentials"

1. Is the above accurate? Or would I also need to check credentials on the Traversal client zone?

2. What if I were to have membership rules pointing the Movi client to a subzone?

What I would do is:

(a) VCS Expressway

Default Zone: "Check Credentials"

Default Subzone: "Check Credentials"

(b) VCS Control

Traversal Client Zone: "Do not check credentials"

Default Zone: "Do not check Credentials"

Default Subzone: "Treat as Authenticated"

But again it is up to the particular requirements

Andrey,

Thanks for the reply (+5). I need some clarification on a few statements:

In response to question 2:

 [Andrey Ganev, in response to question 2]

The authentication policy for the local subzone will be ignored and only the policy on that specific local subzone will be taken into account.


I am confused by this statement. If the local subzone authentication policy is ignored how is the policy taken into account?

[response to question 2]

And no, it should not be "Do not check credentials" because what will happen is that Movi will sign in successfully but the presence status change will fail.

The reason behind this is that once authenticated with username and password against the provisioning db the Movi will receive all the provisioning configuration and will successfully register. However the publish message will get 403 because it has not been authenticated.


I have some confusion around this statement too but it is likely because I am not clear on whether you were talking to the Default Zone or the Local Subzone (in a configuration where Movi clients are placed into a subzone via membership rules).

[response to question 3]

It does know by the search rules, so if it has searched for  'AnyAlias in the  LocalZone' , hasn’t found it and then it will continue searching for the same alias towards traversal zone , usually the VCS with the provisioning db.


OK. That makes sense. However, I wasn't going to use "AnyAlias" on the VCS-E because I thought that would be a problem since I am supporting URI and IP Addr dialing from the VCS-C. So, on the VCS-E I am using a search rule for the domain suffix that is used by Movi clients. I think that should give me the same behavior, no?

[response to question 4]

Here were are talking for non proxied registration. Same behavior is valid also for Control - if you set the DZ to "Treat As Authenticated" and the Subzone to DoNotCheck Credentials or "Do Not Check Credentials or Treat As Authenticated" this will result to registering with whatever password.


I believe I am clear on what you are saying. There is an implied relationship between the subzone and DZ. This begs another question. In my design I was planning to lock out the Default Zone by removing all links. I was going to do this as a security feature but I am now wondering if that would break Movi in some way. In my design all endpoints and Movi clients are assigned specific subzones via membership rules. I thought that subzone membership would override Default Zone being used by Movi. My interpretation of your responses is that the Default Zone still plays a rule even when Movi is pushed into a subzone. Is that accurate? If so, do I need to re-establish links to the Default Zone (like Default Zone to Default Subzone?).

[Response to AD Direct Auth questions]

What I would do is:

(a) VCS Expressway

Default Zone: "Check Credentials"

Default Subzone: "Check Credentials"

(b) VCS Control

Traversal Client Zone: "Do not check credentials"

Default Zone: "Do not check Credentials"

Default Subzone: "Treat as Authenticated"

But again it is up to the particular requirements

What I don't follow here is what happens with movi clients which are hosted internally and registering to the VCS Control? If I follow all of your responses, a Movi client isn't really authenticated when registering internally. Meaning, it doesn't matter what the user provides for authentication? Keeping in mind, that I am thinking in context of the AD Direct Authentication method that I want to apply.

Thanks again.


Regards,

Bill

HTH -Bill (b) http://ucguerrilla.com (t) @ucguerrilla

Please remember to rate helpful responses and identify

Marwan ALshawi
VIP Alumni
VIP Alumni

Great answer Andrey 5+

By the I havnt used the vcs v6 yet

Did u mention above authentication with af/ldap changed

Because with v5 u can use only the user name from AD for movi login and the password generated by the tms

Is it mow possible to use both u/p from ad from login ?

Sent from Cisco Technical Support iPhone App

Hi Marwanshaw,

yes, it is possible but note that direct AD authentication can be used from Movi 4.2 and later.

There is a very useful deployment guide you can check for more details :

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/telepresence/infrastructure/vcs/config_guide/Cisco_VCS_Authenticating_Devices_Deployment_Guide_X6-1.pdf

Hi Andrey,

there is a point confusing me here about the Movi authentication support with AD

normally the authentication comes from TMS for provesioning ( personal en points )

now in the document you provided above it dose mention tht AD supported only with Movi in addition it states that this is not related to the provisioning

Note that Active Directory database (direct) authentication is only supported by VCS challenges, and not by provisioning server (TMS Agent) challenges

!!!

Heh, currently our Movi (4.2) users are registering to the VCS (X6.1) Default Subzone, and if I set the authentication rule to anything else but "Treat as Authenticated", Movi no longer get phonbook (searching for entries no longer works).

(Direct intergration with AD not implemented as yet).

Please rate replies and mark question(s) as "answered" if applicable.

Marwanshawi,

In the normal MOVI configuration the backend LDAP database needs to authenticate the users, you can add an additional layer by turning on authentication in the VCS too if you want.

When you deply the VCS with AD integration, then the VCS needs to authenticate the MOVI users, not the LDAP database.  The reason for this is that only the VCS can talk to the PDC, not the LDAP directory.  So when a MOVI user logs in, the VCS will forward the credentials over to the PDC.

Thanks,
Justin

Thank you,
Justin Ferello
Technical Support Specialist, ScanSource KBZ

Hi Justin

thanks for your input, but whats confusing me here, with VCS 5.x lets say you have provisioning configured with the TMS, then you integrate TMS with AD to get users login then send it via smtp email from TMS to per user for login

the pasword is generated by TMS, login is the AD user name

however from your above description do you mean now i can use AD username and password to login ? if this is correct what baout the TMS Role and integration in the picture with provisioning and login ?

Thanks

Marwan

Marwan,

take a look at:

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/telepresence/infrastructure/vcs/config_guide/Cisco_VCS_Authenticating_Devices_Deployment_Guide_X6-1.pdf

This will describe the method beeing used when using X6.1, Movi4.2 and AD (older VCS or Movi versions are not suported).

To answer your question. Yes, you can use the AD username and password to login with movi.

(you have to enter the user/password in movi, to inherit this from the domain logon would be a nice future feature)

The TMS role is the same, you still need TMS to create and maintain the provisioning accounts,

the creation will still work as before via the AD import and TMS will replicate this info to the VCS.

You can also still use TMS to send out info emails (like info for the download).

The only thing whats not used (so you want to remove it from your template) is the auto generated

password in the TMS provisioning directory.

And btw, if you have additional questions, consider opening a new thread, this one gets quite hard to read :-)

Please remember to rate helpful responses and identify

You can inherit the username and password from your domain logon if you install Movi with a bat file that has the parameter USEWINDOWSUSERNAME=1.

I think that this thread is also a good place to discuss another issue.

Yes - you can do direct authentication with Movi but this means setting the default zone to "check credentials".

What does that mean for provisioning an E20 - it will have to authenticate against VCS.

And the password is generated within TMS. So for this to work you would have to manually enter all the passwords that TMS generated into the VCS local authentication database which doesn't make sense.

Has anyone tried to overcome this?

maciej_wilk
Level 1
Level 1

I would like to throw in some of my thoughts regarding this subject. I have everything working well with direct integration with AD with the following settings:

- default subzone on VCS Control - Check credentials so that locally registered endpoints are being authenticated

- default zone on VCS Control - check credentials for direct AD integration for Movi users

- traversal client zone on VCS Control and traversal server zone on VCS Expressway - check credentials

- default zone on VCS Expressway - do not check credentials

- default subzone on VCS Expressway - treat as authenticated

Everything works fine with these settings but my concern is security on the VCS Expressway - how do I check credentials for external users and at the same not disable access for Movi users?

Because if I change to Check credentials for the Default zone, Movi accounts will not be able to authenticate against AD.

options I see if you want to enable auth on the vcs-e

* add the VCS-E to the AD as well (might not be possible firewall / security wise)

* use the local auth DB on the VCSE and add movi accounts you need (not good as it will get out of sync)

* external ldap auth db (which will not be able to sync passwords with AD)

Do you need authentication on the VCS-E? If you do not add (or remove) the sip domain on the VCS-E

sip/movi registrations shall be proxied to the VCS-C and the authentication is handled there.

Or you could also use a vpn for the movi users so they can direct register to the VCS-C

As I do not know your exact setup, there might be other option or things I mentioned might not fit your deployment. :-)

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