Replacement of 3602i to my home

[mfalkenberg]

Hi

I bought a used 3602i years ago and converted it to autonomomus. It worked superb.

Then I bought a Unifi 6 Lite because of faster wifi and I thought the time was due for an upgrade.

I'm not pleased with the Unifi (needed some reboots and range was not great).
Destiny would have that I got some rain under my roof and the Unifi AP was hit and died a two days ago.

I took my old 3602i from the basement, plugged it in and that's again my primary wifi.

But, what should I get if I wanna buy a used Cisco AP to continue my success with Cisco AP's?
Of course I don't have a WLC or similar at home.

I don't need the newest 6000 gigabit ax+++ 2k sniperlord superspeed deluxe

[Sandeep Choudhary]

Best to go with 9100 series AP.

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/wireless/catalyst-9100ax-access-points/index.html#~products

Regards

Dont forget to rate helpful posts

[mfalkenberg]

So if I'm not gonna use crazy features and so on, I should go for the 9105 - If I can find a used one? And they can be loggin into and controlled like an autonomous AP?

Do you have other suggestions? Remember I'm coming from 3602i

[eglinsky2012]

Depends how much money you want to spend.

For home use, I'd get a 3700. They're AC standard with 4x4 radios and they can be found dirt cheap (like $25) on eBay since they're near end of life. It uses the same autonomous setup you're familiar with from the 3600. If you're in the US, the 3702i-B is slightly newer than the 3702i-A.

Actually, now that I look at it, 2800s have come down, they're going for around $100. They're 4x4 AC Wave 2 and use Mobility Express instead of autonomous mode, which is a bit trickier to get setup initially, but since the AP acts as a mini WLC, it can be used to manage other APs as well if you add any later.

With either model, if you use PoE, you'll need 30W PoE+. The 3700 will run off 15W PoE but at reduced capacity. The 2800 requires PoE+ to function at all.

If you can get a good deal on a 3800, fine, but there's functionally no difference between a 2800 and a 3800 other than the gimmicky expansion slot, and it's slightly thicker.

[mfalkenberg]

First of all... wow! Thank you for all that!
I see I should've set a budget. I guess it's 1000 DKK / $145

I've never had good knowledge of the AP's. But 2800 is better than 3700? Sounds like Nvidia cards

So, the 2800 is about $340 from Europe  https://www.ebay.com/itm/265983056615
The 3700 is about $100 from Europe https://www.ebay.com/itm/295067575906

Of course I'm a bit interested in the 2800 if it's way better? The problem is the pricing in Europe
And if ordered from outside EU I get slammed with import tax/duties and such.

Al though I think the 3602i came from US back in 2015

[Leo Laohoo]

Stick with the 3600.  Here are my reasons: 

1. For home use, at the end of the day, nothing is wrong with just 802.11n.
2. 2600/3600 radio components were the last "batch" that were built and designed for longevity.  < --- Read between the lines.

[eglinsky2012]

"I don't need the newest 6000 gigabit ax+++ 2k sniperlord superspeed deluxe "

Then to Leo's point, stick with the 3600. If it's not slowing you down, no use upgrading. And depending on how fast your Internet connection is, and whether you have all gigabit ports getting out to the ISP or if you have 100Mb ports, upgrading the AP may not help speeds. Depends what you have for clients, too. Some are faster and more capable than others.

By the way, we might get excited about these APs having 4x4 or 3x3 or whatever radios, but even the latest Intel 6 GHz chipsets are only 2x2: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/details/wireless/wi-fi-6e-series/products.html

A 2800 is a newer generation (the x800 series) than the 3700 (the x700 series). The 3000 series was stop of the line, the 2000 series below that. So the 3600 is an older but higher-class AP than a 2800 (regardless, the 2800 still performs better on paper just because it's a newer generation). Then there are 9100 AX APs. 9120 is the new 2800, 9130 is the new 3800. And now the 9166 is the new 9120 and the 9136 is the new 9130. Those do 6 GHz. But 6 GHz is nothing to be too excited about, yet, since most clients in use today don't support it. Maybe you can buy a 6 GHz laptop, but you won't be finding 6 GHz Cisco APs for $145 used any time soon.

There are other lower-end models from all generations I haven't mentioned, but since we're talking about buying them when they're end of life off eBay for cheap, then just get the best model, haha. Or stick with what you have.

[mfalkenberg]

I just meant that I don't need the newest, but we're 4 people with phones/tablets + gadgets (the tv is on LAN)
But an upgrade to faster wifi would be preferred.

I have 1000/1000 Mbit to my ISP. And 1Gbit switches.

And of course the range has something to say as well, and as mentioned, my 3602i seems to have way more range and are more stable.
F.x. when trying to connect to wifi speakers it didn't always connect, and my wifi heating system also couldn't connect from time to time, when using Unifi.

So all in all I would like to upgrade what I have, the 3700 I linked (https://www.ebay.com/itm/295067575906) seems what I should go for?
Only because 2800 is to pricey here in Europe.

But AC is only 5 GHz? and therefore the range must be lesser than my 3602i doing 2.4 GHz (I think I've disabled 5 GHz).
So IF I wanted to do AX (as Unifi 6) I should go for what? I need 2.4 GHz still for some devices at home.

And again, to escpecially you - eglinsky -, thank you for all that explanation! I really appreciate it!

Sorry for any bad English and any mess asking a lot of questions.

EDIT: Oh, and the possibility to add an AP and they talk together would be nice to have, I guess like Mesh or Controller'ish?

EDIT2: Just found "Cisco Aironet 3700 Series 802 11ac" for 250 DKK / $37

EDIT3: Really sorry about these edits! But if I buy three 3700, would they be able to "talk together" if all three is in use? They will be cabled.

EDIT4: I've searched some more about 2700 and 3700 and it seems the 2700 would be enough, but again, will I need a WLC for multiple AP's talking together? (again, REALLY sorry about these edits)

[Leo Laohoo]

Stop thinking about getting the 1700/2700/3700.  At the end of the day, the 1700/2700/3700 can only operate on 802.11n without a controller.  To operate on 802.11ac, wave 1, the APs need a WLC.  

2600/3600, with autonomous IOS, is perfect for home use.  It is cheap, components designed for longevity and plenty to source in the used market.

[Rich R]

> At the end of the day, the 1700/2700/3700 can only operate on 802.11n without a controller.  To operate on 802.11ac, wave 1, the APs need a WLC. 

Sorry @Leo Laohoo but that's not true.
1. https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/wireless/access_point/15-3-3/configuration/guide/cg15-3-3/cg15-3-3-chap6-radio.html#58958

Enabling 11ac MCS rates

MCS rates are configured using the speed command.

To enable 11ac rates, it is mandatory to have at least one basic rate and one 11n rate enabled.

The following example shows a speed setting for an 802.11ac 5-GHz radio:

interface Dot11Radio1

!

ssid 11ac

!

speed 6.0 9.0 12.0 18.0 24.0 36.0 48.0 54.0 m0. m1. m2. m3. m4. m5. m6. m7. m8. m9. m10. m11. m12. m13. m14. m15. m16. m17. m18. m19. m20. m21. m22. m23. a1ss9 a2ss9 a3ss9

Channel width 80

2. Tested it myself:

3702e#sh controllers dot11Radio 1
!
interface Dot11Radio1
...
Carrier Set: ETSI (OFDM) (EU) (-E)
Uniform Spreading Required: Yes
Configured Frequency: 5260 MHz Channel 52 80MHz (DFS enabled)
Serving Frequency: 5260 MHz Channel 52 80MHz
...
Active Rates: basic-6.0 9.0 12.0 18.0 24.0 36.0 48.0 54.0 m0-4 m1-4 m2-4 m3-4 m4-4 m5-4 m6-4 m7-4 m8-4 m9-4 m10-4 m11-4 m12-4 m13-4 m14-4 m15-4 m16-4 m17-4 m18-4 m19-4 m20-4 m21-4 m22-4 m23-4 a0.1-8 a1.1-8 a2.1-8 a3.1-8 a4.1-8 a5.1-8 a6.1-8 a7.1-8 a8.1-8 a9.1-8 a0.2-8 a1.2-8 a2.2-8 a3.2-8 a4.2-8 a5.2-8 a6.2-8 a7.2-8 a8.2-8 a9.2-8 a0.3-8 a1.3-8 a2.3-8 a3.3-8 a4.3-8 a5.3-8 a6.3-4 a7.3-8 a8.3-8 a9.3-8

Windows reports:
SSID 26 : 3702-50
Network type : Infrastructure
Authentication : WPA2-Personal
Encryption : CCMP
BSSID 1 : XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX
Signal : 50%
Radio type : 802.11ac
Channel : 52
Basic rates (Mbps) : 6
Other rates (Mbps) : 9 12 18 24 36 48 54
And Netscout analyser also reports it as 802.11 a/n/ac

So my conclusion - it definitely supports 802.11ac in autonomous mode as Cisco even provides the config for it.  I was pretty sure I'd used it that way before so just had to confirm.

[Rich R · Accepted solution]

"I don't need the newest 6000 gigabit ax+++ 2k sniperlord superspeed deluxe" - made me laugh out loud

1. Personally I'd recommend the 3702i if you can get it cheaply - very reliable in my experience - and it achieves good performance - the first "Gigabit WiFi" AP from Cisco.  Like the others said you need POE+ (30W although it actually only consumes 16.8W) for max performance (4x4:3) although it will work on 15.4W at reduced (but still great) performance (3x3:3)
2. If you only using 2.4 you'll NEVER get great speeds - that's only possible on 5GHz!  If you must use 2.4 (and yes it has slightly better penetration in a home environment so better coverage) then use different SSID for 2.4 and 5.  Only use the 2.4 SSID for those that need to use it.
3.  You can use 3 autonomous APs separately - just make sure all using different channels.  If you want to run a controller then get a 1800 or 2800 and run Mobility Express on it but I'd say stick with 3 autonomous myself.
4.Be careful not to be buy 3700 with UX in the part number - not possible (or EXTREMELY difficult) to prime them now - which is why they are dirt cheap.

[mfalkenberg]

1. Personally I'd recommend the 3702i if you can get it cheaply - very reliable in my experience - and it achieves good performance - the first "Gigabit WiFi" AP from Cisco.  Like the others said you need POE+ (30W although it actually only consumes 16.8W) for max performance (4x4:3) although it will work on 15.4W at reduced (but still great) performance (3x3:3)

I can get 10 for $290, so I'll take three of them and my work will take the seven that are left, and swap 2602's out with them. If possible with our 2504 WLC? (Otherwise I'll just buy three for myself)

2. If you only using 2.4 you'll NEVER get great speeds - that's only possible on 5GHz!  If you must use 2.4 (and yes it has slightly better penetration in a home environment so better coverage) then use different SSID for 2.4 and 5.  Only use the 2.4 SSID for those that need to use it.

Yeah, I know I'm gonna use 5 GHz for it, that's why I'll buy three of them, to make the 5 GHz more available and 2.4 GHz for those devices that need it

3.  You can use 3 autonomous APs separately - just make sure all using different channels.  If you want to run a controller then get a 1800 or 2800 and run Mobility Express on it but I'd say stick with 3 autonomous myself.

Okay, different channels it is then. Will they not be doing that themselves, checking out noice from other AP's (mine in this scenario)? Is it still somewhat easy to get the autonomous image?

4.Be careful not to be buy 3700 with UX in the part number - not possible (or EXTREMELY difficult) to prime them now - which is why they are dirt cheap.

They're AIR-CAP3702I-E-K9. Do I have to check for UX in S/N? Or is it somewhere else on the AP's?

Greatly appreciate your time! (and all other who takes their time to answer me)

[Rich R]

> Okay, different channels it is then. Will they not be doing that themselves, checking out noice from other AP's (mine in this scenario)? Is it still somewhat easy to get the autonomous image?
Yes you can use the auto scan.
Yes the image is still available because it's actually still in support on 9800 and (somewhat to my surprise) they've still been spinning out the new autonomous images when they release the CAPWAP images:
https://software.cisco.com/download/home/285029865/type/284180979/release/15.3.3-JPO
That's the autonomous version of 17.10.1 release!

They're AIR-CAP3702I-E-K9. Do I have to check for UX in S/N?
No that's fine -E is Europe (which should be fine if you're in Europe), -UX was universal and then you had to prime it for the correct regulatory domain before you could use it using a mobile app which Cisco discontinued or with another UX AP which had already been primed.  A few people got caught thinking they had got cheap APs and then found they couldn't use them because they couldn't prime them.

[mfalkenberg]

https://software.cisco.com/download/home/285029865/type/284180979/release/15.3.3-JPO
That's the autonomous version of 17.10.1 release!

I don't have a service contract, so I guess I'll have to find it another way. Checking MD5 up against your link.

And I just asked if all of them are -E-K9, but I guess they are.

[Rich R]

Search for ap3g2-k9w7-tar.153-3.*.tar files - you might not find the latest but there's sure to be something.