Client Access Licenses for TMS Win2008 Server and SQL Server?

[bndooley]

I've read where that the TMSXE interface requires one CAL on the Exchange Server.  What I can't seem to locate is any information on how many CALs are required for Win2008 R2 Server Standard and SQL Server 2008 R2 Standard.  Is there a reference document that I'm missing with this information.  It seems that using Microsofts definitions, you might need one CAL per managed device and/or web user that logs into the web interface.

Can someone clarify?

[daleritc]

This is more of Microsoft question and how you utlize your resources on your Exchange server. But we (TMSXE) do not require any kind of licensing this, i.e. CALs. Again, this is more a MS question than a Cisco/TMSXE one

[Jonathan Schulenberg]

With respect Dale, we all know it's a Microsoft licensing requirement. I think it's reasonable for the BU to document guidance on the topic though. You chose to build your solution on top of Microsoft products after all.

[daleritc]

Hi Jonathan,

And with all due respect to you, and as discussed, there isn't any real guidance to document since we have no requirement here. If we did, we'd surely document it

cheers,

Dale

[bndooley]

The issue is my experience is with the appliance. Now that I have the requirement to go to separate Win Server and SQL, I can't seem to find any guidance on the required MS licensing, other that Win2008 server and SQL Server 2008 are required. That's kind of like saying you need a Cisco router... Would that be a Linksys unit or a GSR? Going the unlimited route would make the project cost prohibitive at this point, but I have not found the Cisco guidelines for what is consumed by the TMS software.

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[bndooley]

In reviewing my question, I can see that I was not clear. I am interested in the MS licensing required to support the basic TMS functionality, not just TMSXE. I'm being told everything from no CALs required for Win Server or SQL to only the unlimited core-based licensing will do. This causes a swing of tens of thousands of US dollars in cost. My reading of MS licensing (which now only seems to be available for Win2012, with downgrade privileges to Win2008) is that I'll need the correct standard licenses for Win Server & SQL se

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[bndooley]

(Continued from last reply) + device CALs for every managed endpoint.



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[daleritc]

I think we're talking about "apples and oranges" here "Apples" being what MS licensing you require for the server that TMS will be installed to as well as possibly SQL...if you take the external SQL server route with regards to where the TMS SQL db will be installed to. Keep in mind that the TMS application can happily work with SQL Server Express (free from MS) installed on the same server as the TMS application and in fact the TMS installer will install SQL Server 2008 Express for you, if isn't already installed to the server. And deciding what SQL route you take is more about what kind of size deployment your doing, e.g. anything over 500-2000 systems I would consider an external SQL Server (full version).

Now the "Oranges" part is that the TMS application obviously requires a release key and option keys. And it's the option keys where you get system licenses, etc. So 'device CALs'  are not needed for every EP that will be managed by TMS.

And for your info, and wrt to TMS server requirments, here's the link to the TMS Install and Getting Started doc:

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/telepresence/infrastructure/tms/install_guide/Cisco_TMS_install_guide_13-2.pdf

Hope this clarifies.

Dale

[bndooley]

I fully understand the Cisco TMS licensing requirements.  Are you saying that the Cisco TMS device licenses INCLUDE the required Microsoft Win2008 Server and SQL 2008 Server CALs ( a la the appliance model)? 

When I read the licensing requirements on the MS site, it says that I need MS 2008 (now 2012) Server Standard license + a CAL for every user or device accessing the server.  Essentially the same verbiage for SQL server, if you don't go with the unlimited per core licensing (min 4 cores), which would drive the SQL cost alone into $10000+... hard to justify for a system at the low threshold of needing SQL server.

You mention that external SQL is only need for 500+ devices.  The link that you include says that it is recommended for 100+ devices.  My system starting marginally below 100 and will grow above.

So all of this still leaves me look for clarity.

[Magnus Ohm]

Hi

Let´s not let this topic blow up. A CAL is either per user or per device right? TMS is doing all its database connections using one user. If you take this into consideration this will use one CAL right? 

TMSXE connects to Exchange using 1 User and connects to TMS using 1 user (site admin of TMS). I would interpret this as TMSXE needs 1 CAL on the exchange server to execute all its operations since that user have full access to all the mailboxes on the exchange.

I would assume TMS was not going to sell that good if you had to pay 10000++$$ for CAL´s, it just does not make any sense.

So if you consider how TMS connects to the SQL server (external) and how TMSXE connects to the Exchange it should be easy to ask microsoft how many CAL´s you need to operate this?

The SQL express that comes with TMS and is installed on the TMS server (appliance) is a free SQL version that you can download freely and use but it has some limitations but for small deployments it works really well.

And even if its documented that you need to go external when you exceed 100 endpoints its not destined that you have to setup external SQL at the mark. If you see the need for this regarding performance and issues relating to express editions limitations then I would consider going external. But this is a decision that you have to take. 

Hopefully this cleared up a few things, please feel free to ask more questions.

/Magnus

[bndooley]

I agree with you regarding SQL.  In particular, the plan was to use a VM instance for the external SQL server, which would indeed mean that a single CAL would be needed for the TMS server to access it.

That leaves the question of the actual TMS server.  Any wisdom on CALs to install there for Win2008 Server?  It would seem that since that is where all of the user and device interaction occur, enough device CALs to cover all managed devices and enough user CALs to cover users of the Web interface might be required.

[Magnus Ohm]

Hi

It's funny since i never had that question rasied before. All the devices connect to tms using an api that requires anonymous access. And this anonymous user is also technically one user (cal). If this was a huge general issue i'm sure we would have heard about this a lot more, but its an intresting question.

It's something that we in tac at least assume is in order when it comes to licensing on the microsoft side. But i don't know how microsoft defines this in the bottom line.

/Magnus

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[bndooley]

It helps to know that it is API-based.  I'm scheduled to talk to someone at MS tomorrow to get the last word (hopefully).  I was just hopeful that someone else has already been through this and knew the answer.  Also complicating things is that 2008 licenses are no longer available, but 2012 licenses allow you to downgrade and run Win2008/SQL 2008.  Unfortunately, the MS licensing model changed with 2012, so it seems virtually no one has answers right now.

[Magnus Ohm]

Yea, it's a web based api. Would be funny to hear the bill of massive websites running on IIS that has to pay for all the unique connections... I dont think you need all these cals that you suspect.

/Magnus

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[daleritc]

Yup...this thread/topic is definitely getting a bit blown up and is probably attentuated by all of MS Server licensing practices. But as throughly discussed here, and because for me too it's the first time I've seen this question asked, we (TMS) assume all the appropriate licensing on the MS side is in order before we get on the server. However, and after doing some brief research on the MS side and simply seeing the confusion of MS's licensing practices, I can see why these types question are raised. Therefore, we'll see what we can do with regards to adding additional information/requirements around this topic in the future. But, and as Magnus says, you definitely won't need all the CALs you suspect...if any. For example, and IMO and from reading a MS Volume Licensing, TMS would/should fall into the Server Licensing Not Requiring CALs category:

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/about-licensing/client-access-license.aspx