Presentation Quality on CTS Endpoints

[Kevin Scott Napier]

I am curious if Cisco has any plans or options to improve the quality of the presentation sharing on the CTS endpoints.  Currently, when sharing on the CTS’s, the presentation seems to pixilate (blurry refresh)  every 15 to 30 seconds even when there is no movement on the presentation (no packet loss, minimal jitter and no other apparent issues on the call in the logs).  I am aware of the optional presentation codec but, that must be purchased for every endpoint.  Based on the Cisco forums below, it seems to be related to the use of IDR frames for the image refresh for the 5fps presentations. With the 30fps codecs, they do not use IDR frames. 

https://supportforums.cisco.com/message/3327774#3327774

https://supportforums.cisco.com/message/3063107#3063107

Are there any options/plans with Cisco to improve the basic presentations outside of purchasing additional hardware for all of our CTS devices? It is somewhat frustrating to have a top of the line video system but to have such poor quality sharing a basic excel document.  We are not sharing video and it is not that the 5 fps are not adequate.  The issue is with the blurry refresh every 15-30 seconds even when the presentation has not changed/moved.

[ANDREW BEEZLEY]

The 2nd generation codecs have 30fps builtin capability, so you don't have to buy additional hardware.  However, I get the irony, in order to get to the 2nd generation set of codecs.. you've got to buy them.  Sort of a catch 22.  I've noticed some applications are worse at rendering presentatoin video than others, but I suppose the question I should be asking is, how blurry is it?  blurry video is subjective and may be "clear enough" for one person and completely illegiable for another.  Basic questions below:

What kind of endpoint(s)

What software version are you running?

What kind of presentation displays are you using?

Do all rooms see the presentatoin blurry whether they are presenting or receiving?

Does it change based on the application that is being presented on the screen?

Do you have pictures that you can add depicting the blurry video?

Does it look any different to you if the presentation video is in a PiP window on the main display versus being presented on an external display?

-Andrew

[Kevin Scott Napier]

Hi Andrew,

What kind of endpoint(s)

What software version are you running?

What kind of presentation displays are you using?

Do all rooms see the presentatoin blurry whether they are presenting or receiving?

Does it change based on the application that is being presented on the screen?

Do you have pictures that you can add depicting the blurry video?

Does  it look any different to you if the presentation video is in a PiP  window on the main display versus being presented on an external  display?

- See more at: https://supportforums.cisco.com/message/3870818#3870818

What kind of endpoint(s)

What software version are you running?

What kind of presentation displays are you using?

Do all rooms see the presentatoin blurry whether they are presenting or receiving?

Does it change based on the application that is being presented on the screen?

Do you have pictures that you can add depicting the blurry video?

Does  it look any different to you if the presentation video is in a PiP  window on the main display versus being presented on an external  display?

- See more at: https://supportforums.cisco.com/message/3870818#3870818

how blurry is it?

• How do you tell if the codec is 1st or 2nd generation?
• It is blurry enough that multiple users in various locations are starting to complain.
• We have CTS-1300's, CTS3210's, CTS-3010's and several other devices such as EX90, C series, and legacy Tandberg devices.  The complaints have come from CTS's sharing to other CTS's both on point-to-point and TPS bridge calls. 
• The 1300's are on 1.9.0(46)_P1.  The 3000's are on 1.9.1(68)_P1.
• The displays are LCD-110Q-PRO-55's. 
• I know for sure that is blurry for those that are receiving and need to check with the users presenting. 
• Excell seems to be especially bad but it happens to a degree with all applications. 
• I will try to get some pictures. 
• PiP is not an acceptible alternative for the customer

Thanks for your help

[Danny Meyer]

I was not convinced with the 1.9er build on the CTS-1300. Picture was not good, we had black blocks showing up on a regular basis. Sometimes a lot of motion artefacts. Not exactly what you expect from such pricy product. Went back to the latest 1.8 version and it improved again. Something is not good here, especially on the classic codecs.

On the CTS-3x10, the 1.9er build made the configuration very slow and cumbersome. Also, likely again a too much for such codec that code.

Danny 

[ANDREW BEEZLEY]

Danny - Yes, I would agree with you that there seem to be some hurdles to clear in the early 1.9 release.  I personally have seen problems with 1.9.2 and sluggish performance with endpoints that are on a call with a presentation.  The admin CLI and web GUI are practically brought to a hault.  However, it has never been advisable to be in the admin GUI while an endpoint is on a call.  The resources are prioritized based on need and the kernel isn't going to give priority to ICMP, SNMP or HTTP over RTP and RTCP and other internal services required by the codec to keep sanity checks and error recovery going while in a call.  Cisco is investigating ther performance issues with 1.9.2 and I will be running my own tests against 1.9.3 to see if there are performance improvemetns.  My recommendation would be to review the release notes.  If you've got an endpoint that isn't behaving like it used to, open a support case to bring attention to it.  The worst thing to do is nothing.  Nothing means the incident is isolated.

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/telepresence/cts_admin/1_9/release/notes/cts_1_9_release_notes.html

-Andrew

[ANDREW BEEZLEY]

Hi Kevin - You can tell which generation codec you have by the software version (P1 vs P2)  If you had a P2 behind the software version, that would be indicative of a second generation codec with the built-in 30fps presentation enhancement.  There was one important question I did not ask you and that is whether this has been an observed defect since day 1 or if it it just started happening recently or after a recent upgrade?

I've seen in the past Microsoft ClearType causing a problem with the way the text shows up on the presentation displays.  Instead of a clean true-type black font/text, there is a green, red, blue haze or blur round several of the charachters.  This was predominately seen with rooms that used projectors opposed to LCD displays, but has also been seen on LCDs.  There is a blurb about it below.  If you have ClearType enabled, try disabling it on a laptop.  If it's alrady disabled, try enabling it to see if it's makes thing better or worse for you.

http://www.microsoft.com/typography/WhatIsClearType.mspx

I recommend removing the HDMI video cable to the presentation display on at least one or two rooms temporarily to test the difference.  I understand a PiP alternative for presentaion is not the long-term solution but may help narrow down which component is suspect here.

So the image gets blurry to the receiving parties every few seconds, would you say that the endpoints presenting never see a blur to what they are presenting?  Does the image look clear to those presenting in the local room? 

There was an issue with presentation video artifact appearing in 1.9.0 every 10 to 15 seconds, but the problem wasn't observed between CTS-to-CTS calls but rather 3rd party to CTS calling.  But could possibly be something to look into. 

Also, there was an issue identified with blurry presentation with calls landing on a TelePresence Server (CSCub87916) which was resolved in 1.9.3. Do you have an option to upgrade your endpoints or at least two endpoints to test to see if 1.9.3 resolves your presentation issue?

-Andrew

[Kevin Scott Napier]

Hi Andrew,

I checked with the endusers and this seems to have been an issue since day 1.  They do not think it got any worse or better when we up graded to 1.9.x last August.  The issue is with a large amount pixilation not a green, red, blue haze or blur round several of the charachters.  The room that is presenting does not see the pixilation which causes its own issue as they do not know to wait for the page to refresh before moving on. We are planning to upgrade CUCM to 9.1 so maybe we can upgrade the enpoints at the same time but this happens on point to point calls as well so I don't believe this will be the fix.

Do we need to restart after removing the HDMI cable?

Thanks,

Scott

[ANDREW BEEZLEY]

Hi Scott - I would need to test your setup out to see if I see the same presentation distortion you see.  I have a rough idea of what the room participants receiving presentation content are experiencing (similar to what I say when sharing content over the internet with relatively low bitrate) however, if you have a picture of what is seen, would be helpful.  what is the typical bandwidth allocated / reserved for TelePresence calls?  Is there any marking or remarking of the RTP media packets occuring on the network?

As for as restarting the CTS after removing the HDMI cable, no you do not however, I would urge caution that if you are going to remove the cable while the system is powered up, make sure the person removing the cable is properly grounded to avoid ESD.

-Andrew

[Nick Halbert-Lillyman]

I just thought I'd chime in here - we ran CTS units with presentation codecs, however on the numerous occasions we had presentation codecs fail or get disconnected, the presentation would fall back to 5fps and get quite pixilated, particuarly with movement on the screen but also sometimes with static text and images.  We understood this as expected behaviour (which is why we bought the presentation codecs) - while obviously I would need to see what you are experiencing, the symptoms you describe sound very similar to what we understood as "normal" for a CTS unit without a presentation codec.