Difference between "access point solution" and "hot spot solution"

[fabio.marino]

Hi to all, i'm Fabio.

My customer has a bookshop and wants to allow to his customers access to the internet using wifi connection.

Here in Italy there are a lot of laws and is very hard to create this type of solution without legal permission, authorization and so on.

However, i'm reading some technical website, and lot of them propose solution based on hot spot and not access point.

Now my question my doubts:

-Is there some difference (technical and "conceptual") between hot spot and access point?

-How are the law outside Italy, in order to satisfy this type of request?

You have to think that here, based on the Italy rules, my customer should become a telecommunication operator to allow him to install ten access point for public use!!!!!!!!

Thanks, Fabio Marino.

[fabio.marino]

ok but till now no body was able to explain the difference between "hot spot solution" and "access point solution".....all just wrote dwon about the difference between access point and hot spot, but no body was able to explain the solution called "hot spot solution" and the solution called "access point solution"

[Surendra BG]

I guess everyone answered it.. but somehow ur not beleiving wat they said!! Lets reverse engineer the issue.. where did you first hear about the "Access Point Solution" and "Hot Spot Solution" ??

Regards

Surendra

[Leo Laohoo]

ok but till now no body was able to explain the difference between "hot spot solution" and "access point solution".....all just wrote dwon about the difference between access point and hot spot

I disagree with this statement.  We didn't explain the DIFFERENCE.   We are telling you, all the time, that the term "hot spot" and "access point" is the same.  It's like saying "what's the difference between the term 'call' and 'mobile phone solution'."  You can't make a "call" without a "mobile phone".

but no body was able to explain the solution called "hot spot solution" and the solution called "access point solution"

The only time I've seen someone calls it a "solution" is when that person is trying to SELL this product.

Take note, in modern days, the term "hot spot" and "access point" can easily be blended into one.  A marketer will use the term "hot spot" because it sound's pleasing particularly to the un-initiated.  A technical person uses the term "access point" because they are not looking at what dollar value you can earn from it but rather what you can do with it.

Back when the term started coming out (and wireless was still treated like a pariah), some "techical" writers couldn't tell the difference.   Now as technology progress, the term "hot spot" and "access point" become synonymous to each other.

There are places here in Australia that advertise "Wireless hotspot available" and "Wireless Access available".  Are we going to debate that the two terms are not the same to "wireless access point"?  OR do you want to be "politically correct"?  "Politically correct" terms would call the solution to offer wirless network in an environment as a "hot spot".  Technically it's called a "wireless access using a wireless access point" (in my humble opinion). 

Your thread is a good one, not because we are feverishly debating on what the correct term we should use (let legal department handle that), but rather the solution you are trying to achieve. 

Shall we "bury the hatchet" and move on and discuss your techical dilema?

[fabio.marino]

My document were not about hot spot and access point but were about "access point solution" and "hot spot solution".

I'll try to explain the contest where i found out this differentation and may you start to understand.

Ok, i need to implement a building with various "access point". This is a commercial solution. So far in Italy, in order to allow your customer to use your "access point" thay need to provide to you a lot of personal information. This was for anti-terrorist prevention.

From January 2011, something change so now everybody can use "access-point" in a shop (like in my case) without provide any personal information.

Based on this, i tried to find some solution on internet and i get this type of information:

1)Using  "access point solution" you can not monitor: access user, produced traffic and in this way your qos in not monitored. Anybody can have access to your network without check.

2)Using "hot spot solution" you can avoid the disvantage of point 1

Now:

1)I know the difference between access point and hot spot

2)I found the difference between "access point solution" and "hot spot solution" in different website and for different brand

3)Are you not curious tu understand what this difference means?

4)For me was so strange to read this type of differentation and this is the reason why i tried to ask on this forum, but the finla result was a lot of people that suggets to me the difference between access point and hot spot. Thanks, i know this difference.

Is clear now? However as soon as i get the answer i will be happy to share this info here.

Here the source:

http://www.alias.it/news/2011/wifi-libero-insieme-a-raytalk-per-lo-sviluppo-del-wireless-in-italia/

http://www.cdaweb.it/Articoli_Vista/tabid/94/articleid/305/Default.aspx?dnnprintmode=true&mid=421&SkinSrc=[G]Skins%2F_default%2FNo+Skin&ContainerSrc=[G]Containers%2F_default%2FNo+Container

Is it all in italian

[Surendra BG]

Cool!! nice to hear that you already know the difference between them!! meaning you know something more than wat we all know!! Thats y asked you that i need to reverse engineer this.. wats the info that you have??

Regards

Surendra

[fabio.marino]

Surendra, i started my discussion based on the document

ation that you can find here:

http://www.cdaweb.it/Articoli_Vista/tabid/94/articleid/305/Default.aspx?dnnprintmode=true&mid=421&SkinSrc=[G]Skins%2F_default%2FNo+Skin&ContainerSrc=[G]Containers%2F_default%2FNo+Container

http://www.cdaweb.it/Articoli_Vista/tabid/94/articleid/305/Default.aspx?dnnprintmode=true&mid=421&SkinSrc=[G]Skins%2F_default%2FNo+Skin&ContainerSrc=[G]Containers%2F_default%2FNo+Container

Are you able to read Italian?

In negative case i think you can not start reverse engineering based on my information...

[Surendra BG]

cant understand italian :(.. lemme use use google translation!!

Regards

Surendra

[fabio.marino]

Ok Surendrea, in this case i post here what you have to translate from my link

(source: http://www.cdaweb.it/Articoli_Vista/tabid/94/articleid/305/Default.aspx?dnnprintmode=true&mid=421&SkinSrc=[G]Skins%2F_default%2FNo+Skin&ContainerSrc=[G]Containers%2F_default%2FNo+Container):

"Quali soluzioni tecnologiche possono essere  adottate per tutelarsi in questo senso? Una esaustiva risposta a tale  domanda viene data in questo articolo di 01Net.it. Possiamo sintetizzarne i concetti. I gestori dovrebbero preferire soluzioni di tipo hotspot, invece che access point.  Questi ultimi infatti hanno la funzionalità basilare di diffusione del  segnale, senza però poter tracciare l'autore di eventuali attività  illecite, in quanto non esiste distinzione tra gli utenti collegati e  non rimane traccia del traffico prodotto. Gli hotspot, invece, permettono di far autenticare con username e password univoci ciascun utente, e quindi rintracciarlo in caso di necessità, gestire  ticket di navigazione, gestire la banda in modo che un singolo utente  non la monopolizzi rallentando o intasando la navigazione altrui,  separare la rete personale/aziendale da quella del Wi-Fi pubblico, e  mantenere traccia di tutto il traffico attraverso i file di log (i  registri degli accessi). Ecco la soluzione ideale che consente  all'esercente di dimostrare di non essere l'autore di attività illecite."

English version:

"What technological solutions can be adopted to protect themselves in this way? An exhaustive answer to this question is given in this article 01Net.it. We can summarize the concepts. managers should prefer solutions like hotspots, rather than access point. These in fact have the basic functionality of spreading the signal, without being able to trace the perpetrators of any illegal activities, as there is no distinction between connected users, and no trace of the traffic generated. hotspots, however, allow to authenticate with username and passwords each user, and then track it down if needed, manage navigation tickets, manage bandwidth so that a single user does not monopolize the slowing or clogging the navigation of another, separate network and personal business than that of Wi-Fi public, and keep track of all traffic through the log files (access logs). This is the perfect solution that allows operator to demonstrate that it is not the author of any illegal activity."

May be based on this information you can learn something new

[Peter Nugent]

Maybe if you read a little more widely than a single marketing brochure you may learn something new.

You can do all that and more with an access point, it doesnt just spread a signal around with no authentication.

Look at 802.1x, guest access. Geez we can track an object to several metres with an access point or several, track every site a user goes to etc etc..

Read up understand the technology then discuss.

Sorry you just fail to comprehend.

[Nicolas Darchis]

An "access point solution" can actually track users, the traffic they generate and have restricted security, thus contradicting the article you are bringing.

[Peter Nugent]

Sorry I do not get whet you are actually coming from this question is answered by several very respected people in the wireless industry glabally and myself yet you want to disagree. Occasionally Cisco make marketing statement that from a practical point of view dont necessarily fit well with experiences in the field or customer expectations.

This is one of those cases.

[fabio.marino]

Pete the important point here is not agree or disagree, but it was just a discussion to go in deep with this type of differentation that i found in different article of the network, both commercial and technical one.

Every one is expert in his field may be in wireless, may be in networking may in other one and this was the reason why i try to open here this type of disucssion.

If someone disagree with your idea i thing is not a problem or a fight and at the same time is not a form of unrespect.

I disagree just because no one  was so curious to go in deep with this discussion in order to clear it.

Finally i hate people thet judge other people. This is a form of unrespect.

Now reading this discussion i just get that a lot of technical italian link do not reported right affermation that's all. isn't?

[Peter Nugent]

Now your talking rubish

Quote "May be based on this information you can learn something new" didnt learn anything new from the article doubt I ever will from you or Davide Mascaretti, well certainly not  about wireless.

You have read a single document and disagreed with everyone here thats cool but its not a "debate" when you just say we are not answering simply because you are not either a) listening or b) understanding as you have decided to take a single paragraph from a single documents. Is this from a manufacturer or another individuals interpretation. Unfotunately this is why many many wireless implementations are rubish because many people like yourself have not got a clue what you are actually talking about.

So lets ask whats the difference you teach us seeing as apparently we do not know or our answers are not acceptable.

Also from your quote above you actually set a tone here thats not really acceptable continually reposting the same question. If you do not understand thats fine, if we are wrong thats fine aswell but when five professionals give the same answer you can be pretty sure its the right answer.

[fabio.marino]

I think that this discussion is not more technical.

However bacause of the different idea that i got here, as soon as i solve my doubt i share my information with you in this forum, sure. Sharing information i think that is essential. Isn't?

ps:i finished my discussion on 28th of April. Just read my post

Thanks Pete for your time.

Best Regards

Fabio Marino.

[Leo Laohoo]

Ok.  Let's go technical ...

Ok, i need to implement a building with various "access point".

How "big" is this building?  How many floors?  Are there any walls?  What kind of walls?  Concrete?  Wood?  Kryptonite?

Using  "access point solution" you can not monitor: access user, produced traffic and in this way your qos in not monitored. Anybody can have access to your network without check.

Ok.  This is very typical.  Straight-forward wireless solution DO NOT monitor user data traffic.

I'm not going to discuss anything below those comment.