TMS "Replace System"

[Anthony Thomson]

Why won't TMS allow you to replace a system with one that has the same IP address?

I find this frequently in environments where addresses are statically assigned to endpoints.  A unit dies, it gets replaced with a unit that has the same IP address.  TMS won't let you do that.  So you end up re-adding the endpoint as a new one, and having to configure it from scratch, and losing the call history of the first one.  You lose the history, and the ease-of-replacement functionality of TMS porting over the settings to the new unit.

This, despite the units being set explicitly to be tracked by MAC address, rather than IP address.  Does it behave differently if set to track by Hostname?

Thanks.

[Patrick Sparkman]

I've had to replace endpoints in my environment the same way you mention, no problem, we're even tracking the endpoints the same as you.  It was two years ago when I did the replace, and it was for up to 12 endpoints being replaced at once under and upgrade.  If memory serves me correct, we put in the static address into the endpoint, pointed it to TMS so TMS would add it to it's system navigator, then go to the old endpoint and do a replace pointing it to the new one.  In a nut shell, I think that is what we had done.

When you select to replace a system, which option are you choosing?

• Change system Network Address to
• Switch or replace with exisiting system

We had selected to choose an existing system, since we added them to TMS at first.

[Anthony Thomson]

I've tried both options.  I'm playing with it right now, using your idea of actually adding it to TMS first.

[Lawrence James]

You can replace systems in TMS without adding a new one. It is kind of hard to find the area but in the interface but on the connections tab use the Replace System button.

Even if you do add a new systems if you configure a template to upload to newly added system it can configure almost all common settings.

[Anthony Thomson]

This would be exactly what I'm doing, using the Replace System button, and what I was referring to in my Subject line.  I guess it wasn't as obvious as I thought.

[Patrick Sparkman]

Anthony Thomson wrote:
Why won't TMS allow you to replace a system with one that has the same IP address?

I just tested this with our TMS, and I got the same result as you.  I can understand why it's doing it, it thinks it is already added and TMS thinks you're just trying to replace the old system with itself.  Perhaps TMS needs to poll the "replacement" IP address even though it's the same, to compair the systems and if there the same respond with an error, if difference proceed with the replacement.

One alternative, is to change the tracking of the endpoint to be by IP.  Then bring the new endpoint online with that IP, once online, do a force refresh in TMS and it will update the endpoint information.  All the CDRs, logs, etc within TMS would still be there, however some minor configuration to the endpoint would need to be done because it's not a true replace system, so the dial plan and settings within TMS wouldn't have copied.  Iv'e done this a few times as well.

[Steve Kapinos]

If you had the endpoint tracked by IP address... and you put your system on the IP address of the old system.. a simple forced refresh should make TMS accept the new device as the old.  No real need for 'replace system' there.  TMS will through it's failed connections do a rediscovery and can understand the device is a new systemAPI even.  Configure your device as you see fit (no porting of settings)

If you were tracking by MAC address... and powered up the new system on the old systems IP when TMS discovered the device it would blank out the IP address in the old system entry as it doesn't allow two devices to have the same IP address.

I'm a bit confused to the sequence of events you are using..  but replace system is a little fickle at times and has some established paths its expecting people to be in.

[Anthony Thomson]

"If you had the endpoint tracked by IP address... and you put your system  on the IP address of the old system.. a simple forced refresh should  make TMS accept the new device as the old.  No real need for 'replace  system' there.  TMS will through it's failed connections do a  rediscovery and can understand the device is a new systemAPI even.   Configure your device as you see fit (no porting of settings)"

The whole point of the exercise is to avoid manual configuration of the devices as much as possible.

"If you were tracking by MAC address...  and powered up the new system on the old systems IP when TMS discovered  the device it would blank out the IP address in the old system entry as  it doesn't allow two devices to have the same IP address."

This does not work.  TMS will not allow you to replace a system with a new one that has the same IP address.

What I would like to do is:

1.  Power off the old device.  An MXP unit.

2.  Hook up the new one to the same peripherals, power it on.  New unit is SX20; it takes some cable adapters to make this work.

3.  Manually configure with remote/touch control IP address information (same as old).

4.  Use the TMS "replace system" functionality to port over all applicable settings (system name, H323, SIP, etc.) to the new unit.

[Patrick Sparkman]

The way I see it, you'll have to do a little bit of configuration on the endpoint no matter what.

Another way to try this is with little config as possible:

1. Configure for Static, and assign IP to codec
2. Configure codec provisioning to point to TMS server
3. TMS server auto adds codec to system navigator
4. Do a replace system on old codec pointing to new codec recently added to TMS

[Steve Kapinos]

Patrick Sparkman wrote:
The way I see it, you'll have to do a little bit of configuration on the endpoint no matter what.
Another way to try this is with little config as possible:
Configure for Static, and assign IP to codec
Configure codec provisioning to point to TMS server
TMS server auto adds codec to system navigator
Do a replace system on old codec pointing to new codec recently added to TMS

Yup... this will work because by adding the system into TMS, the conflicting IP on the original system entry in TMS will be blanked when the new system is added.  Then you can use the 'replace with existing system' option.  I haven't tried it, but since the current IP is blank... I think you can do this with the original IP.  I prefer to bring the endpoint up on another IP to minimize conflicts.. but I know that can be limited in some situations.

It should be noted tho that the new endpoint will still need configuration help because replace system will only offer to change aliases and system name.  Other configuration can be done via enforce management settings, templates (persistent or adhoc) or manual configuration.

[Steve Kapinos]

Anthony Thomson wrote:
The whole point of the exercise is to avoid manual configuration of the devices as much as possible.

Understood - I'm just saying the difference is very minimal.  The replace system feature basically offers the ability to reconfigure the system's aliases and name.  Not necessarily a huge savings.  Everything else is about persisting the representation inside TMS which happens anyway when you do a force refresh.

The main reason the replace system functionality exists is to deal with the situation where you have 'SystemA' as the original system in TMS.. and you brought 'SystemB' online as the new system and it too is in TMS.  How do I make SystemB replace SystemA so SystemB takes place of SystemA and assumes all it's values.

The functionality exists because commonly SystemB would be discovered by TMS as a NEW system.. making it cumbersome to make TMS think the new system was really the old system (you had to jump through hoops purging, doing things in certain sequences, etc). 

The need was most frequent when people would upgrade endpoints.. or change offices, etc.

This does not work.  TMS will not allow you to replace a system with a new one that has the same IP address.

I assure you, it does.  You are actually doing something different.  I said when TMS discovers the endpoint.. meaning when the endpoint is added into TMS, or if TMS discovers it through any of it's network scans or passive discovery mechanisms.  When the endpoint is added into TMS's database, it will wipe the IP address from any system that currently has it (when you are tracking by MAC address).

What I think you are trying to do is use the replace system BEFORE the new endpoint is in TMS.  I think you are trying to use the 'change IP address' field and trying to put the same IP address in, as the system entry you are trying to update.  Correct?

This will not work and is not it's intended use.  As the name states, the field is to CHANGE the IP.  If your endpoint was on 10.10.10.10   and the new endpoint is not in TMS at all, has not been discovered, and is on 10.10.10.20, you would use 'change IP address' to update the old TMS entry and it would interrogate that new IP, discovery the endpoint type, and progress through updating the TMS entry and pushing the call settings down if you chose to do so.

You can't change the device's IP to the same IP.

If you used the second option, 'switch or replace with an existing system', TMS takes the connection settings from the new system, updates the old system entry, purges the new system entry, and updates the system with the old system call settings if you chose to do so.

If you really want to use the replace system functionality...  you need to

Option1 -

(assuming you are using track by MAC address)

1 - power down old system

2 - power up the SX20 on a different new IP different from the system to be replaced (even DHCP..)

3- use replace system on the 'old' system in TMS, select 'change IP address..' to the new IP address, follow wizard

4 - once complete, goto the SX20, reconfigure the SX20 for the original IP, and boot the endpoint.  TMS will update the IP address in TMS when the SX20 registers

5 - configure the remaining parameters of the endpoint (using your templates or through manual config)

Option2

(assuming you are using track by MAC address)

1- power down old system

2 - power up the SX20 on a different IP from the system to be replaced

3 - get the SX20 into TMS (simpliest way to get it discovered is by configuring the provisioning externalmanager address to TMS's IP... that will cause it to register to TMS)

4 - use replace system on the 'old' system in TMS, select 'switch or replace with existing system' and select the SX20, complete the wizard

5 - configure the remaining parameters of the endpoint (using your templates or through manual config)

Option3 - don't use the replace wizard

(system must be track by IP address)

1 - power down old system

2 - power up the sx20 and configure on original IP address

3 - do force refresh in TMS on old system, TMS will pickup the new system type and update the existing system properties to reflect the new endpoint's API and current values

4 - configure endpoint settings as desired to match the old values and other necessary configurations

Since you are switching system types from an MXP to an SX20, you are going to have to do some endpoint configuration anyways.  The replace system will reconfigure the alias settings and name, but not all the other system parameters (including the critical gatekeeper/registar settings/etc). 

Since you are changing device types, you can not use configuraiton restore which would have been your alternate for minimizing configuration updates for the new system.  (when replacing within the same generation/model.. you could do a configuration backup/restore to push all your interesting parameters)

If you have several of these to do, my recommendation is to create configuration templates with your common parameters, and then all you need to do is configure things that are unique to the endpoint.

[Anthony Thomson]

I assure you, it does.  You are actually doing something different.  I said when TMS discovers the endpoint.. meaning when the endpoint is added into TMS, or if TMS discovers it through any of it's network scans or passive discovery mechanisms.  When the endpoint is added into TMS's database, it will wipe the IP address from any system that currently has it (when you are tracking by MAC address).
What I think you are trying to do is use the replace system BEFORE the new endpoint is in TMS.  I think you are trying to use the 'change IP address' field and trying to put the same IP address in, as the system entry you are trying to update.  Correct?

That would be correct, amongst several other iterations and attempts.

What I came up with is Option 4 (tracking by MAC address):

1.    Disconnect the old system from the network and peripherals.

2.    Connect the new unit to the network and peripherals.  Make the following configuration changes using the Remote Control

    a.    Configure an IP address, subnet mask and gateway for the new unit (same as the old one) using the remote control.

    b.    Configure Provisioning settings Mode to TMS, and ExternalManager Address to the correct IP address of the TMS server.

    c.    Restart the endpoint.

3.     When the unit is finished restarting, TMS should discover it because it  will start sending packets to TMS.  It will be automatically added to  the Discovered Systems folder, with No Name.

4.    In System Navigator, go into the Connection tab of the old unit, and perform a Replace System

    a.    Use the Switch or replace with existing system option, and select the No Name system that has just been discovered.

5.    In System Navigator, go to the unit, Settings Tab, Edit Settings menu, and click “Enforce Management Settings”.

DHCP  is not available on the Video VLAN, and secondary IP addresses are  administratively difficult to obtain in this organization, which is why  I'm trying very hard to use the same IP address.

Thank you for the very thorough response.

I  really think there should be a mechanism to replace a system with a  system that is NOT in TMS (yet), but uses the SAME IP address.  In my  experience, this is the way most customers want to perform a swap.  They  get frustrated when it doesn't work, and end up purging the old unit  and adding the new one in as a new unit and manually configuring all  it's parameters.  TMS is supposed to make things easier.

[Patrick Sparkman]

Anthony Thomson wrote:
I  really think there should be a mechanism to replace a system with a  system that is NOT in TMS (yet), but uses the SAME IP address.  In my  experience, this is the way most customers want to perform a swap.  They  get frustrated when it doesn't work, and end up purging the old unit  and adding the new one in as a new unit and manually configuring all  it's parameters.  TMS is supposed to make things easier.

The problem with allowing TMS to replace a system that has been added with a system that has not using the same IP, is that TMS doesn't know that the system it already has in it's database is in fact old and really is being replaced.  All it knows is you're trying to use an IP that is already in use, and is preventing a possible conflict.  Hense, the need to add the new system into TMS with the static IP you want to use, so it will clear it from the system that is already offline and not responding, TMS will start receiving feedback from the new system and realize that the IP it's recieving them from is from a difference system than what's already been added, and as a result clear the IP from the system already added.

[Steve Kapinos]

Anthony Thomson wrote:
That would be correct, amongst several other iterations and attempts.
What I came up with is Option 4 (tracking by MAC address):

Your step 2b is the important one... by configuring the externalmanager address in the endpoint, the endpoint will initiate a register attempt with TMS.  This triggers the passive discovery in TMS and TMS will add the system to the database.  Because your original endpoint was track by MAC address, TMS will add the new SX20 as a new endpoint and wipe the IP address in the old system record.  Now you can perform a 'replace' request without any conflicts.

and BTW, really you don't need to reboot the endpoint there in 2c.  By changing externalmanager mode/address a TC software endpoint (MXP too I think) will initiate the register request immediately.. triggering the discovery in TMS.

This would all happen in this same order if using the setup wizard on the endpoint as well if I recall correctly if you want to use that.

[Patrick Sparkman]

Steve Kapinos wrote:
and BTW, really you don't need to reboot the endpoint there in 2c.  By changing externalmanager mode/address a TC software endpoint (MXP too I think) will initiate the register request immediately.. triggering the discovery in TMS.
This would all happen in this same order if using the setup wizard on the endpoint as well if I recall correctly if you want to use that.

In my experience the provisioning request happens as soon as you fill in the address details, it starts trying to send feedback, no reboot is required.  A reboot might be required for the IP, just depends, I've seen sometimes that a codec might not take and use the new IP right away.